Qhimm.com Forums
Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: guitar_dudester91 on 2010-12-03 21:51:19
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being in the spirit of top ten, and wanting attention, I thought it would be fun to think of the hardest games you've ever played. One I can think of is Sniper Elite for the PS2. It was insanely long, and you stood no chance of survival if you were discovered. I still thought it was fun, but it was damn hard. And in my opinion, FF8 was hard. The story is great, but for people just coming off of FF7, the system was hard to get used to. The materia slots worked so well and were easy to follow, and you could learn them quick. I personally don't think that could be said of FF8, but hey, that's just me.
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I Wanna Be The Guy
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Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts is pretty hard. It's also not a good game, because the challenge comes from Simon-type memorization, and even perfect reflexes cannot help if you do not know what is coming.
Donkey Kong Country Returns is one of the hardest games I've played in a long time, but I don't mind, because I can always tell that it's my fault when I lose.
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Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts is pretty hard.
Oh God I just had traumatic flashbacks.
Not to my childhood, but to when I attempted to get into that game a couple of years ago. I was over 20 and it still kicked my arse so hard I didn't bother trying to get past the first level.
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Donkey Kong Country Returns
I've heard nothing but good about this game. I've got it on my HDD, gonna transfer it to my wii's hdd when I sober up a bit
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Why don't you buy it instead...
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ninja gaiden series is legendary for difficulty.
god of war 2 - laugh all you want but i never got past the phoenix revival challenge (the hall with fire).
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Dude, I agree, it took me forever with God of War. And I have to admit, Shadow of the Colossus had its hard times too, because whenever you failed, the trek to get back to the monster took fucking forever.
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Why don't you buy it instead...
Because unlike most everybody else on this forum, I'm a horrible human being. I'm also flat broke 98% of the time...
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I don't want to argue about morals, I just don't get it, why many people are not willing to pay for a good game.
Everywhere you here complaints about nintendo not caring enough for their core gamer audience. Then they throw out a well made game with something you could actually call a classic difficulty level at last, and people still don't think it's worth its money and download it.
I mean, seriousley, is it not for your own good if games like dkc sell well, so nintendo sees that there are still people interested in some good old difficult jump and run action?
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Hexen 2 is hard. Hexen 1 was difficult but that was because it was a lot of searching for different items and keys for the puzzles - but once you know them you can run through it like its nothing.
Some of Hexen II's hardest puzzles CHANGE when you load the friggin game. Still, its a great game and it supports coop play.
Also, Descent 2 on insane difficulty.
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Tomb Raider 2 getting all secrets without the internet/a guide.
Nuff said.
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Hell ya I forgot about Tomb Raider, that shit is hard. I never erally liked the "arcade" modes of games like Tekken or The Warriors, where you go down a bunch of streets fighting bunches of bad guys, with bosses at the end. I could do it fine in Streets of Rage or Golden Axe, but they set the difficulty too high in more modern games.
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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - NES. Never finished it without cheating. Same applies to Snake rattle and roll - NES
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As of present, I'm playing HOMEWORLD 2. Damn it is such a hard game... I noticed recently that the AI is absolutely brilliant in this game, it adjust to the players strengths, making you weak and at a disadvantage always as you go through the levels. And not to forget that you are playing in a 3D plane of space. 1 mission can take you at least an hour to complete.
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- Shadow of the Beast on Sega Genesis (you take 15 hits and you die. No continue)
- Thunder Force III on Sega Genesis (I don't know why, but I could never finish this shoot'em up)
- the original Shinobi (frustration, frustration... ...and if you reached the final boss without the gun, you were basically screwed IIRC)
- Kid Chameleon on Sega Genesis (no saves, and +100 levels ?... ...Who beat that thing ?)
...Yeah, those are games from my time ^^ I oddly don't remember more recent games that give that "it's hard" feeling. Maybe I'll think of more later. Oh, and I second Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - NES (as well as Tomb Raider 3 and Ghouls 'n Ghosts / Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts - never had a problem finishing Tomb Raider 2, but was constantly stuck on 3).
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who framed roger rabbit on the NES. Not only did the game give you barely any information on what to do, there were so many useless locations. You could die quick as hell, and half the items you could pick up were never usable anywhere in the game. Overall it was very confusing and difficult.
I 2nd Kid Chameleon as well, that game was crazy hard. There was a secret in one of the first levels that let you skip a large majority of the game though. I actually beat it when i was a kid....though i think it took nearly an entire summer break and 2 friends to switch on and off with.
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I don't want to argue about morals, I just don't get it, why many people are not willing to pay for a good game.
Everywhere you here complaints about nintendo not caring enough for their core gamer audience. Then they throw out a well made game with something you could actually call a classic difficulty level at last, and people still don't think it's worth its money and download it.
I mean, seriousley, is it not for your own good if games like dkc sell well, so nintendo sees that there are still people interested in some good old difficult jump and run action?
Oh, I firmly agree. I can't say I'm not willing to pay for a good game. I can't even come close to saying that. It's just monetarily, I can't afford it. Usually when I pirate a game, if I like it enough, I buy it. Unfortunately, that list keeps growing longer and longer, so I've developed a tendency to only buy games if I buy the collectors edition, or the bundle that comes with the peripheral required to play it. Sadly, this only sets me back further (a prime example would be Punch Out!! for the Wii, great game, pirated it, WANT to buy it, but I keep getting set back, by other things like Rock Band 3. I LOVE Rock Band, so I bought it with the Keyboards so I had another instrument for the game, that set me back $130, which I could've bought several of my backlogged games with.)
Enough about my morals though, back to hard-ass-games.
Contra, no Konami Code.
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Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii).
Your tactical skills would have to be the level of Napolean Bonaparte in order to beat it even on normal mode (and you'd have to be a computer in order to beat it on hard mode). If you make even the tiniest error in the middle of a long and difficult battle, the enemy will exploit it and kill one of your characters.
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Amnesia is probably the hardest game i ever played, mainly due to its "scaryness".
(i defy you to play it at night with headphones)
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I would say Blazing Dragons in PSX. I thought that this would be a bad ass game at first because of the title. But it turned out to be a puzzle-like kinda needs logic game.
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Hmmmm that depends of a lot of things... first the age when i've played and then the dificulty level I would say Shadow of The Colossus was a little tough some Colossi took me a lot of time to find out...
When i was younger there were a game, a ninja one from nintendo 64 i remember very well... Goemon's Great Adventure that's the hardest game i've ever played judging the difficulty level, i don't know if today i could be able to beat it the game was freakin awesome and i couldn't pass the part of the giant robot race thing ahahaha... great times...
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Superman 64
Seriously, the visuals make you wanna puke, the controls give you Nintendo Thumb within 5 seconds, I don't even know if there was a plot. It was just... HORRID, and because of this, it's a fucking chore to sit through it, so, right there, hardest game ever.
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(i defy you to play it at night with headphones)
I defied you when it first came out, son. 8-)
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I remember playing Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire on N64. It took forever to beat Boba Fett, and man, when we did, fuckin streamers came down from the ceiling. It was awesome.
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Superman 64
Seriously, the visuals make you wanna puke, the controls give you Nintendo Thumb within 5 seconds, I don't even know if there was a plot. It was just... HORRID, and because of this, it's a f*cking chore to sit through it, so, right there, hardest game ever.
Ugh, I tried that game (rented it from Blockbuster back in the day). I never got past the flying through hoops training thing. That game was horrible.
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The Jetbike level from Battletoads and Double Dragon.. Seriously. Like, head downtown to your seediest pawn shop and pick up a copy of this. Me and my roommate both agree, HARDEST THING EVER LITERALLY. It's like if you had a kidney stone the size of a golfball, ugh. Awful. :|
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Superman 64
Seriously, the visuals make you wanna puke, the controls give you Nintendo Thumb within 5 seconds, I don't even know if there was a plot. It was just... HORRID, and because of this, it's a f*cking chore to sit through it, so, right there, hardest game ever.
Ugh, I tried that game (rented it from Blockbuster back in the day). I never got past the flying through hoops training thing. That game was horrible.
Hey, that's....exactly my experience with this game... Are you me?
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- Kid Chameleon on Sega Genesis (no saves, and +100 levels ?... ...Who beat that thing ?)
Me but I had to cheat, also it depended on which choices you made sometimes... ended up with different set of levels to play. It needed a save feature for sure.
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Me but I had to cheat, also it depended on which choices you made sometimes... ended up with different set of levels to play. It needed a save feature for sure.
Reminds me of the days back in 96' before I had a memory card for PSX, back in those days they cost like $50! I remember Rayman, where they gave you the classic "Password" system, where you spent 10 minutes writing down a 40 character random password which ultimately NEVER FXCKING WORKED. Rage.
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Hey, that's....exactly my experience with this game... Are you me?
Yes, I'm the Kal-El to your Clark Kent.
Wait, no, not really.
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My whole life is the hardest game I played :-P
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QWOP
QWOP is the hardest game I've ever played.
http://foddy.net/Athletics.html
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QWOP
QWOP is the hardest game I've ever played.
http://foddy.net/Athletics.html
Zzzzzzzzzz I've been trying to beat that for 2 hours now...I haven't made it past 15m ....
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Ninja Gaiden, Pac-Man, Resident Evil 4 (PS2): The Mercenaries, Beat Down: Fist of Vengeance (Xbox), Vakyrie Profile, and Tetis.
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and Tetis.
Tetris? Not really. Tetris The Grand Master 2? Hell yeah. That game is hell for beginners, most don't even last two minutes.
Related note, if you're looking for a good TGM clone, texmaster is a good place to start.
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Battletoads for nes. Impossible...
FFIX, nah kidding.
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I wanna be the guy
Ninja gaiden 2 ( master ninja mode x_x)
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final fantasy 13
just couldnt figure it out, so boring too
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Dragon Warrior 1. NES version.
AWESOME, but hard
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Dragon Warrior 1. NES version.
AWESOME, but hard
Sorry I have to disagree, but maybe thats because I'm a HARDCORE grinder.(I once played on the second screen you get Seifer on in FF8 for 2 solid weeks. I killed my other 2 party members and not only Leveled Seifer to 100 but leveled your first GFs to 100 and drew magic and used my abilities gained to max my entire partys magic stock. This enabled me to have a level 7 party(vs. lvl 7 enemies)While having GF's deal 9999 damage, and the magics junctioned onto my characters gave me around 5000 hp,255 str, etc.I think I finished at lvl 15. Needless to say I could kill Ultemecia with one renzokuken lol.)
Lol that was a paragraph in parentheses, anyway, I just did a lot of grinding to get an insane level, and made sure I got the hero items(is that what they are called?)As I remember the hints to getting them are easy to find.
My vote for hardest game is probably Rygar for nes, Ive never made it pass the third boss.
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I remember getting royally owned in Shining Force 2 - never been a tactics-guy. As such, I have tremendous problems with every strategy-game ever made. Hm... I wonder if perhaps Independence War/I-War is the most absolute difficult game I've ever played? I'm not usually THAT badly owned in space-flight games, but then, it relies on tactics and imagination.
Or maybe it's Lock-On or Falcon 4[variant x]... The Myst-series doesn't count, does it?
[Edit]
OT - Heh, sweet, just noticed I'm a 'Cool newbie'! 8) Well, gee, I've only been poking around here since Jenova was in development, first dipping my toes in FF when FFVIII PC was still somewhat new... :roll:
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Any bullet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd3-jDEeiF0) hell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM) game from Cave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwWCH0rsCgA).
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Any bullet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd3-jDEeiF0) hell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM) game from Cave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwWCH0rsCgA).
Amen to that, I've been playing Mushihimesama Futari for over a year now, and its still impossible on Ultra difficulty, ESP Ra. De is another classic of theirs.. and as much as they drive me insane, I just keep coming back for more :-P
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Hardest game ever nobody can trump: Battletoads for the NES
Thats hard beyond impossible
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Mushihimesama Futari
Every time I see the word "futari" I immediately read it as "futanari".
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Definitely have to say Duke3D on Damn I'm Good. That's one of the hardest difficulties ever made in a vanilla, non modded fps.
Also, if we are talking mods, The Hell mod for Diablo 1 is over the top, near impossible hard. Surprisingly though, not impossible.
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Definitely have to say Duke3D on Damn I'm Good. That's one of the hardest difficulties ever made in a vanilla, non modded fps.
Also, if we are talking mods, The Hell mod for Diablo 1 is over the top, near impossible hard. Surprisingly though, not impossible.
Agreed. >_< Me and a Friend have been trying to get it to work with Multiplayer though, using LAN or TCP/IP over Hamachi. Got it to show up in the menu and stuff just games won't show up ><
If we're still talking mods LOL - FF1 Rebalanced was a pretty good Challenge. I don't know if it was realesed though I got sent the Beta version for the NES, I haven't gotten any emails back since September '10 >.> If you can get past the minor graphical bugs on some of the sprites then it's pretty good challenge. Alot harder compared to the Original FF1 that's for sure.
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Any bullet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd3-jDEeiF0) hell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM) game from Cave (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwWCH0rsCgA).
lol I liked this comment in one of these vids.
(X) Asian Hard
() Asian Medium
() Asian Easy
() Impossible
() Expert
() Hard
() Medium
() Easy
Asian Easy is harder than Impossible :evil:
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Harder of all them? FFX. I just wasn't able to figure what to do... I do love that game, like all FFs (although FFVIII is still my favourite) but I'm not good... FFXII too... I got stuck a lot, but managed to beat it. Also FFVI. I think I don't have the necessary strategy to beat some bosses... FFIX also is damn hard for me. Kari "Essentia" Johnson makes me realize how much bad I am to these three game >< Have you ever been ridiculised by some Speed Runner at some game? FFVI, single-segment in 3:27 ><
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Every time I see the word "futari" I immediately read it as "futanari".
lol, you're not the only one. As to the hardest games, I second Dan about TMNT on the Nes. El Viento on the Genesis was also hard, but I finished it. And Gargoyle's Quest on GB was also good fun. ...Yeah, old games, I know ^^
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Harder of all them? FFX. I just wasn't able to figure what to do... I do love that game, like all FFs (although FFVIII is still my favourite) but I'm not good... FFXII too... I got stuck a lot, but managed to beat it. Also FFVI. I think I don't have the necessary strategy to beat some bosses... FFIX also is damn hard for me. Kari "Essentia" Johnson makes me realize how much bad I am to these three game >< Have you ever been ridiculised by some Speed Runner at some game? FFVI, single-segment in 3:27 ><
I think you've got the word "hard" mixed up with the word "ridiculously easy".
FFVI, FFIX and FFX are without a doubt the three most disappointingly easy game I've ever played (assuming, in the case of X, we're just talking about getting to the end and not including the side-quests).
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You think FFVI, FFIX and FFX are easier than FFVII ? Seriously ?... ...I mean, seriously ?
I'm not saying those three are hard (actually, I find them to have the right difficulty level - especially FFIX and FFX), but implying that vanilla isn't a walk in the park is, well, just wrong. Except when trying to fight Emerald or Ruby, I never had a single game-over in my first FFVII playthrough - whereas I had 3 or 4 along the course of both FFIX and FFX (for example, I didn't recruit Quina when I had the chance and fought Gizamaluke with only Zidane, Vivi and Freya). That, and Yunalesca was tricky.
In fact, it depends of which FF game you played first - and how old you are...
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Hardest Final Fantasy ever was VIII. [/troll]
Hardest game I've personally played was the Ninja Gaiden series. And the trials for Street Fighter IV and Super Street Fighter IV.
EDIT: Totally forgot about Kid Chameleon. That shit kept going on and on and on!
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lol yeah, Kid Chameleon... ...Never finished this one. I remember playing it again on emulator years ago, and even by abusing save-states, I ended up being stuck in a skate-boarding level. It wasn't a maze, but I couldn't find the exit :o I think it has a few "trap" levels, and if you warp into one of them, you're basically screwed.
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You think FFVI, FFIX and FFX are easier than FFVII ? Seriously ?... ...I mean, seriously ?
Yes, considerably easier.
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Yes, considerably easier.
Care to elaborate why you find them that much easier ? I'm curious.
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Care to elaborate why you find them that much easier ? I'm curious.
Because they're easier.
FFVI is much more basic than a lot of other FF games and can be beaten without any thought at all. I'm not sure whether I had a single game over when playing it; the final boss was insultingly easy even by FF standards. Whatsmore, it's always insultingly obvious what the player has to do and where one has to go.
FFIX's bosses seem to have been gimped for the sole purpose of making the Excalibur II side-quest possible. It actually gets harder right at the end, but none of the other bosses pose any kind of challenge, even if one obsessively tries to steal every item from them (which wastes Zidane's turn and takes far too long thanks to the low steal rates). It's also far easier to fight with a party of four than with a party of three.
FFX has the opposite problem. Rather than gimping the bosses, facilitating the side-quests allows the player to nerf the party to the point where the final opponents an be beaten in just a couple of hits. One might say that this is comparable to what happens when one gets hold of KotR in FF7, but at last KotR is hard to get. The ability to fight battles using overpowered Aeons also made things far too easy. One commendable aspect of FFX is that, unlike the other two games, it requires one to think about how best to deal with equipment and character growth. It shares this aspect with FF7 and 8, which require an understanding of the materia system and the junction system respectively. FF6 and 9 didn't have anything that required this level of thought.
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FFX was pretty challenging in some areas though for sure. Seymour was usually a few time try especially on gagazet. Yunalesca was hard and the dark aeons especially penance were very difficult and required you to fill a lot of the sphere grids.
OK there were a few that were difficult and most of the game bosses were easy. The side quests werent :P
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What was the difficulty like in XII? I only played the first 10 minutes.
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What was the difficulty like in XII? I only played the first 10 minutes.
The hardest part of XII is staying awake through the overlong and tedious dungeons.
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Armorvil, didn't you remember that Kudi thinks the exact opposite of everything he says, which means that he found these games hard, too. And about any game, I don't have any strategy at all. Attack, heal when necessery, use limits/special skills when possible and hear the traditional victory fanfare. About VIII, like said earlier as a trolling, as opposing to the others FFs, increase diffuculty with level. I've actually beaten a No-Level Game and, without the card-morphing mobs part, it was easy and straight. Otherwise, as any game, once you've beaten it once without too much difficulty and you see someone having trouble, you laugh at him/her saying that this part is very easy. When I saw Kari "Essentia" Johnson beat the boss I've got stuck at (in both FFVI and FFIX) easier and faster than I did at another boss, for example, I was shocked. Also, when you beat a game easily, it's difficult for you to understand how the others can get stuck; I can't imagine anyone being stuck in FFVIII, for example, when it's possible somehow...
EDIT: Forgot to talk about FFXII. It's not hard gameplay-wise, but story-wise, as this world is far too big I got stuck at many places. Not really "hard" (with the need of grinding) but just enough.
I wrote so much? O_o
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Armorvil, didn't you remember that Kudi thinks the exact opposite of everything he says, which means that he found these games hard, too.
That's a very intelligent comment.
And I think you'll find that I believe the exact opposite of almost everything I say. I'm not always being sarcastic. For example, I'm being honest when I say that 6, 9 and 10 are easy as fuck. 6 and 9 are the easiest games in the main series.
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As soon as you combine All + Restore in FFVII, you can't lose. There are no enemies that need a specific strategy like the Wrexsoul battle, either. Enemies also barely use status effects against you (did one of your characters ever get turned to stone in FFVII ? No ?... ...That's what I thought), and dungeons have no puzzles at all (save the ancient forest). This means even less thinking in FFVII. Not only that, but there are also fewer random battles. And you can't say the materia system requires much brain power either, and there are so many overpowered abilities it's not funny *looks at E.Skills, Limits, and Summons*.
Also, FFVI, FFIX and FFX all have (especially FFIX and FFX) many enemies that can take more than half of a character's HP with a physical attack. In FFVII, there are the Weapons and maybe Lost Number - but that's all I can think of. My characters rarely got KO'ed in FFVII, but it happened more often in both FFIX and FFX.
For these reasons, you didn't convince me that FFVII is harder than FFVI, FFIX or FFX. And mentioning the fact that FFX's final boss is easy when you get the Celestial Weapons and/or power-level, is lame. Every FF is a cake-walk after power-leveling. It looks like you played a challenge of some kind in FFVII, and power-leveled in the others. You spammed summons in FFX ? Well, I spam limits & Beta in FFVII, so bosses don't last long, either.
Armorvil, didn't you remember that Kudi thinks the exact opposite of everything he says, which means that he found these games hard, too.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
And about any game, I don't have any strategy at all.
That might be why you have trouble with FFX. Just sayin'.
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As soon as you combine All + Restore in FFVII, you can't lose. There are no enemies that need a specific strategy like the Wrexsoul battle, either. Enemies also barely use status effects against you (did one of your characters ever get turned to stone in FFVII ? No ?... ...That's what I thought...
Also, FFVI, FFIX and FFX all have (especially FFIX and FFX) many enemies that can take more than half of a character's HP with a physical attack. In FFVII, there are the Weapons and maybe Lost Number - but that's all I can think of. My characters rarely got KO'ed in FFVII, but it happened more often in both FFIX and FFX.
I don't recall having any problems with Wrexsoul. And akshully, there are quite a few enemies that can really ruin your day if you don't know what you're doing. Bottomswell is a good example; so is Carry Armor. It's a huge pain in the arse when enemies can take out characters instantly like that.
I also wonder whether you've forgotten about the Midgar Zolom and Master Tonberry. They can be quite devastating. Did you forget the Cave of the Gi, too? It's full of enemies that can really fuck you up, especially if you're running short on items (which is very common at that point in the game). Fortunately, there's a trick to beating them, but not all first-time players know that.
And don't get me started on enemies that use confuse. That's an incredibly common status attack in FF7 (are we talking about the same game). It's another thing that frequently turns routine battles into nightmares if you let your guard down. The worst thing of all is when one of your characters gets confused after getting on the receiving end of Supernova; it's a real kick in the balls.
And you can't say the materia system requires much brain power either, and there are so many overpowered abilities it's not funny *looks at E.Skills, Limits, and Summons*.
It's all relative. The materia system requires far more thought than a lot of FF growth/equipment systems.
If I said that the ten times table is easier than the five times table, would your response be "that's not true because the five times table is really easy"?
For these reasons, you didn't convince me that FFVII is harder than FFVI, FFIX or FFX. And mentioning the fact that FFX's final boss is easy when you get the Celestial Weapons and/or power-level, is lame. Every FF is a cake-walk after power-leveling.
Firstly, FF8.
Secondly, FF7's final boss is far harder to beat when you're at level 99 than when you're at level 50.
Thirdly, the amount of time and effort required to get a few of the nerfed abilities in FFX is not very great; it's much less than the time and effort needed to power level.
It looks like you played a challenge of some kind in FFVII, and power-leveled in the others.
Quite the opposite. FF7 is the game where I tend to be the most over-levelled. Purely by accident, of course.
You spammed summons in FFX ? Well, I spam limits & Beta in FFVII, so bosses don't last long, either.
I'd like to know how you spammed limit breaks in FF7. Is there an "aura" materia that I don't know about? Maybe there's a "meltdown" materia too? ;D
Beta can't compare the Aeons in terms of nerfedness.
Oh, and there's something else I forgot about.
Yojimbo.
Yes, I'm aware that FF7 has an "instant win attack too, but it's incredibly hard to get and it requires using Cait Sith, so it surely doesn't count. Yojimbo is very reliable
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VI has two instant death "spells", Joker Death and Joker Doom. One kills all enemies and the other kills all allies. They both ignore instant death immunity so it can basically kill anything. There's even a way to glitch Joker Doom so it works in the battle with Kefka. But you can only use it when you get Setzer.
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The hardest part of XII is staying awake through the overlong and tedious dungeons.
I ragequit at the last dungeon when I see that it has no map whatsoever
Yes, I've played it for 89 hours (and with 9999 damage and invincibility cheat too! Imagine how long it would take if I don't use those), yes, I've defeated the last game, and yes, it's the final dungeon, but no map? Serious-f*cking-ly?
No, I'm not a cartographer, thanks. I've spent a lot of time mapping that mapless dungeon where you can get Danjuro, I'm NOT going to spend another time being a cartographer
The hardest was... well... that SNES Tiny Toons game, basically some kind of Olympics or something. Oh, the last difficulty...
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I don't recall having any problems with Wrexsoul. And akshully, there are quite a few enemies that can really ruin your day if you don't know what you're doing. Bottomswell is a good example; so is Carry Armor. It's a huge pain in the arse when enemies can take out characters instantly like that.
You need to kill the right one of your 3 characters for Wrexsoul to be targetable, otherwise (without abusing bugs) it is invincible. In FFIX and FFX too, there are bosses that demand a few tricks to be taken down. There is none of that in FFVII. Besides, Bottomswell is a joke. I'll give you Carry Armor though, it must be the only storyline boss not to be completely helpless in FFVII.
I also wonder whether you've forgotten about the Midgar Zolom and Master Tonberry. They can be quite devastating.
Midgar Zolom, devastating ? In the beginning, when you're supposed to catch a chocobo to evade it, yes, of course. But later in the game ? No, not at all. It's not even a good example, since I can counter this by using the "Dragon" example above Gizamaluke's Grotto in FFIX. The moogles tell you not to go there, but if you do, I guess it also is quite devastating.
As for Master Tonberry, it's a push-over. It only counter-attacks with Everyone's Grudge if you blindly attack it with your three characters every turn, and only performs an Instant-Death attack after walking all the way to your characters. Not only that, but FFVII features the Death Force E.Skill, that voids all Instant Death attacks. Plus, the thing has no resistance to damage whatsoever. FFVI's Master Pug is a lot more dangerous, and can block your elemental attacks thanks to WallChange.
Did you forget the Cave of the Gi, too? It's full of enemies that can really f*ck you up, especially if you're running short on items (which is very common at that point in the game). Fortunately, there's a trick to beating them, but not all first-time players know that.
Wait, the Cave of the Gi is hard ? That's a first. And no, I don't see how you'd run short on items at that point, either. Item shops aren't rare in FFVII, and you'd have to do something stupid like wasting your gil on HP Pluses materias not to be able to keep a healthy supply.
For your information, you can also do stupid things in FFVI, FFIX and FFX.
And don't get me started on enemies that use confuse. That's an incredibly common status attack in FF7 (are we talking about the same game). It's another thing that frequently turns routine battles into nightmares if you let your guard down. The worst thing of all is when one of your characters gets confused after getting on the receiving end of Supernova; it's a real kick in the balls.
I'll give you Confusion, though Yuffie's Conformer is unaffected by the status, and the availability of the Ribbon accessory / Added Effect make it a non-issue. FFIX doesn't have a Ribbon-like ability, and you can only get it very late in FFX (plus, you'd have to play the International/PAL version). Stop/Mini/Petrify/Berserk ?... ...Almost never used against you. And one amusing fact : the only shops that sell Echo Screens are in Wall Market and Gold Saucer, but you never feel their lack of availability. Likewise, I've never felt the need to waste a materia slot on Heal, either - especially since White Wind fixes so many status effects.
It's all relative. The materia system requires far more thought than a lot of FF growth/equipment systems.
This doesn't really mean anything. FFIV, for instance, has the most basic level-up system, but it's arguably one of the harder FF titles. Especially in its original Japanese release. Besides, you don't have to know the ins-and-outs of the materia system to get through the game just fine. As I said, All+Restore does not demand a heavy brainstorming, as does equiping things like Double Cut or Enemy Skills.
In fact, the materia system only makes things easier, since you can easily interchange materias from one character to another. You didn't level RedXIII before Cosmo Canyon ?... ...No problem, just slap on him the materias you leveled, and he's a beast. Compare to parts in FFVI, FFIX or FFX in which you're forced to play characters that you potentially didn't use, and you'll come to the conclusion that FFVI, FFIX and FFX are harder.
Thirdly, the amount of time and effort required to get a few of the nerfed abilities in FFX is not very great; it's much less than the time and effort needed to power level.
True, but this doesn't make FFX easier than FFVII. FFVII hands the ultimate weapons on a silver platter.
I'd like to know how you spammed limit breaks in FF7. Is there an "aura" materia that I don't know about? Maybe there's a "meltdown" materia too? ;D
You know what I'm talking about. The mechanics behind building the Aeons' Overdrive gauges and the ones behind the building of your characters' Limit gauges is essentially the same. You can take some time to prepare a Meteorrain, in the same way you build up the Aeons' gauges before boss fights.
Beta can't compare the Aeons in terms of nerfedness.
That's right, you can't compare them : thanks to Magic Hammer, you can keep using Beta again and again throughout the battles, whereas Aeons are instantly killed by the later bosses - allowing each of them only one action.
Oh, and there's something else I forgot about.
Yojimbo.
Yes, I'm aware that FF7 has an "instant win attack too, but it's incredibly hard to get and it requires using Cait Sith, so it surely doesn't count. Yojimbo is very reliable
You must be kidding. Yojimbo could be efficient against random enemies, but not against bosses that require a Level5 Zanmato (almost all of them). And to reach such a level, you have to hand the Aeon hundreds millions of gil. Not very practical, don't you think ? If you're gonna talk about exploits like this, need I remind you that Cait Sith's slots can be controlled so Game Over works in every boss fight ? No improbable amount of gil needed, there.
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In the international version, Yojimbo's Zanmato would come a lot of the time if you gave him reasonable gil. They changed the odds for the international version due to the dark aeons and penance. hence it is very easy to use yojimbo as a "get out" in euro version (provided you chose option to kill the strongest of foes). They changed the odds A LOT. There is a readme online which shows you that.
I really dislike how they put in these get outs. They usually have one.
Cait Sith "All Over" : 7
Selphie "The End" : 8
Friends Quest: 9 (but I will let them off with that, as you had to do something to make ozma easier)
Zanmato: 10
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You need to kill the right one of your 3 characters for Wrexsoul to be targetable, otherwise (without abusing bugs) it is invincible. In FFIX and FFX too, there are bosses that demand a few tricks to be taken down. There is none of that in FFVII. Besides, Bottomswell is a joke. I'll give you Carry Armor though, it must be the only storyline boss not to be completely helpless in FFVII.
Pfft, I don't even remember Wrexsoul, so he couldn't have been that problematic.
Midgar Zolom, devastating ? In the beginning, when you're supposed to catch a chocobo to evade it, yes, of course. But later in the game ? No, not at all. It's not even a good example, since I can counter this by using the "Dragon" example above Gizamaluke's Grotto in FFIX. The moogles tell you not to go there, but if you do, I guess it also is quite devastating.
It's easier than you think to run into the Zolom. I can't help but wonder whether you've played FF7 far more times than the other games and are basing your opinions on the difficulty of 7 on what happened in your 10th playthrough.
As for Master Tonberry, it's a push-over. It only counter-attacks with Everyone's Grudge if you blindly attack it with your three characters every turn, and only performs an Instant-Death attack after walking all the way to your characters.
He's a push over if you know what you're doing.
He has very high HP and can kill characters instantly. Any enemy like this can easily take a first-time player off guard.
Not only that, but FFVII features the Death Force E.Skill, that voids all Instant Death attacks. Plus, the thing has no resistance to damage whatsoever. FFVI's Master Pug is a lot more dangerous, and can block your elemental attacks thanks to WallChange.
You need to have Dragon Force and know to use it. Once again, you're looking at things from the perspective of someone who already knows what to do. If you already know what to do, every RPG is easy.
Wait, the Cave of the Gi is hard ? That's a first. And no, I don't see how you'd run short on items at that point, either. Item shops aren't rare in FFVII, and you'd have to do something stupid like wasting your gil on HP Pluses materias not to be able to keep a healthy supply.
Item shops are rare in the Cave of the Gi, it's at a point in the game where gil has not yet become stupidly easy to acquire and where a lot of very tempting new materia is introduced. Once again, you're looking at everything with hindsight. You have to know to stock up on ethers and phoenix downs and hi-potions.
I'll give you Confusion, though Yuffie's Conformer is unaffected by the status, and the availability of the Ribbon accessory / Added Effect make it a non-issue. FFIX doesn't have a Ribbon-like ability, and you can only get it very late in FFX (plus, you'd have to play the International/PAL version).
The ribbon is acquired quite late in FF7, too. And once again, hindsight. You can't have all defensive abilities all the time, so you have to know when to use it.
Besides, you don't have to know the ins-and-outs of the materia system to get through the game just fine. As I said, All+Restore does not demand a heavy brainstorming, as does equiping things like Double Cut or Enemy Skills.
In fact, the materia system only makes things easier, since you can easily interchange materias from one character to another. You didn't level RedXIII before Cosmo Canyon ?... ...No problem, just slap on him the materias you leveled, and he's a beast. Compare to parts in FFVI, FFIX or FFX in which you're forced to play characters that you potentially didn't use, and you'll come to the conclusion that FFVI, FFIX and FFX are harder.
Once again, you miss the point of "relative"
True, but this doesn't make FFX easier than FFVII. FFVII hands the ultimate weapons on a silver platter.
FF7's ultimate weapons are comparable to FFX's nerfed abilities like HP limit break and damage limit break.
You know what I'm talking about. The mechanics behind building the Aeons' Overdrive gauges and the ones behind the building of your characters' Limit gauges is essentially the same. You can take some time to prepare a Meteorrain, in the same way you build up the Aeons' gauges before boss fights.
I don't call spending several battles building up a limit gauge and then starting over again "spamming". Aeons can be very useful even when their overdrive gauges are empty; they're powerful and save the player from being killed. They're very spammable.
That's right, you can't compare them : thanks to Magic Hammer, you can keep using Beta again and again throughout the battles, whereas Aeons are instantly killed by the later bosses - allowing each of them only one action.
And what about the earlier bosses? And what about how they're a very cheap shield? And what about the fact that most enemies in FF7 have low MP, making magic hammer less useful than it could be. And what about teh number of difficult enemies in FF7 that are resistant to fire?
You must be kidding. Yojimbo could be efficient against random enemies, but not against bosses that require a Level5 Zanmato (almost all of them). And to reach such a level, you have to hand the Aeon hundreds millions of gil. Not very practical, don't you think ?
I recall Yojimbo turning up very often indeed. Perhaps our different experiences are because of that thing that Seifer said.
If you're gonna talk about exploits like this, need I remind you that Cait Sith's slots can be controlled so Game Over works in every boss fight ? No improbable amount of gil needed, there.
Didn't you read the bit about how this requires you to use Cait Sith? Aside from the fact that the amount of luck/timing ability you need to be able to use Game Over reliably is ridiculously high, the fact that it requires Cait Sith to be in the party makes it very impractical. Most players don't even know that it exists.
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My take on the order of how hard the Final Fantasy games are. As I have just played most of them for the first time....
IX) Hardest game of them all! There was points in the game where I would emerge from a cave not knowing there was an alternative exit, I would be met with the hardest enemy's ever. This was made even worse, by the fact that you must spend allot of time scraping for scraps the whole game so that you may participate in a few auctions :(. Not counting the randomly overly hard bosses, one boss I would kick his butt, the very next boss fight I'd get walked all over. :|
VIII) This one is kinda cheating (My second playthrough ever) as it has been awhile I immediately fell into the newbie trap. What is the newbie trap you ask? Well simple...I must have level grinded squall (alone) for days! It's what I do in an RPG I sit there, pick up my PSP and battle a few hundred times. I avoid walkthroughs like the plague, and I had somehow forgotten a vital piece of info concerning FF8. Never level UP EVER!!!
Needless to say I was getting my a** handed to me by the nearest chatterpiller :(. I am not going to go into the convoluted menu system...or ridiculiously meesed up junction system. But, I can understand how many ways a person can "break" the system, or make it be the easiest game in the world if you know what you are doing. But not from a newbie perspective...
X) I dislike X. But the "challenge" missions are waaay to hard. Even with maxed out stats :(.
VII) A decently hard game, especially when going up against the weapons :/ I agree from a newbie standpoint the game is quite difficult.
I) The only thing that makes this game hard is that stupid cave where you are trying to get the crown. Other then that, the random encounter rate forces you to become a demigod fairly quickly.
II) Suffers from "elder scrolls" style level up. The more you do, the more you gain. Pretty easy to break the system even for a beginner :/.
V) Kinda hard till ya get to the end. Fighting the three "red dots" a few times breaks the combat system.
IV) Nothing notable, cept' when you get to the moon; Gets kinda hard then.
III) Worst game ever made (DS Version). Only hard in the aspect of being a very ugly game.
VI) Interesting title....The over abundance of miscellaneous characters, combined with sum jacked up moves makes this game very very easy. The ridiculous encounter system ensures that your favorite character is in-fact christ reborn. I'm not going to even go into the sheer number of weapons and ability's each character has. But I will try and list a few. Not that you would need them (Think of bringing the full Arsenal of the Russian Empire to a watergun fight) I'm talking about...
crossbows, swords, fists, shape shifting, summoning, mechs, claws, kitanna's, axe's, shurikens, lances, dogs, beasts, rods, maces, boomarangs, clubs, cards, brush's, scrolls, +much much more :/
It's like your a walking item shop for the entire Final Fantasy Series :) Anyone that thinks this game is "hard" is on the crack pipe.
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Anyone that thinks this game is "hard" is on the crack pipe.
Good thing I've been sticking to meth then.
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X wasn't "way too hard", it was a welcome change with those sidequests from the piss easy ones we usually get with FF games.
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Final Fantasy 4 (Nintendo DS version) was the only hard Final Fantasy i have played lately..
i remember having major difficulties on Final Fantasy 6 many many years ago aswell... when i 1st got into the world of ruin with no chars and no idea what to do it got pretty tough.
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X wasn't "way too hard", it was a welcome change with those sidequests from the piss easy ones we usually get with FF games.
Are you kidding me!? Chocobo Catcher Race, The Butterfly Hunts and dodging 200 Lightning Strikes in a row!? Not to mention the challenge events, with bosses (Nemesis)exceeding over 10 MILLION HP!!!??? With the ability to heal!? In fact just a quick search results in a billions angry fans fustrated and convinced that this cannot be done.
I doubt any new person to the Final Fantasy series would consider this game easy...or "not hard".
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None of them were too hard. It made the game great and nemesis is as easy as pie (seriously when you get levelled up with the grid you are taking 99999 HP a hit multiple times with your characters and with a speed of 255 you are doing it a lot). Penance is the harder one. Once you learn the grid it becomes much easier, and that chocobo game was great fun and a challenge. The whole game was geared for a challenge and I prefer that to it being easy.
If you really want a game that is difficult try getting 1st on all the special missions in MSG1 and 2. That's hard. I have completed everything there is to do on X and it was very satisfying. I would have prefered ffx make it even harder in a lot more areas.
What we really need is a difficulty option, that way the crap gamers (no offence) can't whine :P
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Being new to the game, no it wasnt hard, yes challenging, but difficulty is relevant.
The things you mention may be valid for your arguement, but I dont think everyone sees it this way.
Yeah dodging 200 lightning strikes is a challenge, which consists of 200 single button presses...
I think we mean difficulty more in terms of the strategy and mechanics involved in battle...
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Oh I agree the lightning strikes thing was a bit over the top and I prefer clever difficulty. The cloister of trials and destruction spheres provided that although it needed to be harder.
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Every game is hard for a newbie. Every game is easy for someone who has beat it at least twice. A game can be easy and fun (VIII for me) or easy and bad (II for me) , yet hard and fun (X for me) or even hard and bad (I for me, until I decided to replay it)
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Are you kidding me!? Chocobo Catcher Race, The Butterfly Hunts and dodging 200 Lightning Strikes in a row!? Not to mention the challenge events, with bosses (Nemesis)exceeding over 10 MILLION HP!!!??? With the ability to heal!? In fact just a quick search results in a billions angry fans fustrated and convinced that this cannot be done.
I doubt any new person to the Final Fantasy series would consider this game easy...or "not hard".
well the 200 lightning strikes, chocobo race and butterfly hunts (this one especialy) are more "annoying" then "hard"
also Nemesis isn't rly anything special (At least when compared with some other secret bosses from other FF's) infact, once u max out stats, most fights can be won by just using Hyper Mighty G and spamming Quick Hit
sure a new player will have troubles with those, but an average gamer won't have any issues IMO.
Oh I agree the lightning strikes thing was a bit over the top and I prefer clever difficulty. The cloister of trials and destruction spheres provided that although it needed to be harder.
haha i gotta admit, i got stuck for like 1 week (around 1-2 hours gameplay per day) on Zanarkand temple trying to figure where the hell was the secret treasure.. only to have a friend telling me that u can only get it later in the game lol
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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - NES. Never finished it without cheating. Same applies to Snake rattle and roll - NES
that reminds me, when i was like 10. I got all the way to the final form of shredder in TMNT after countless failed attempts, and then my brother and I ran out of lives and had to start from the beginning! I have never beat that game since. Ah just thinking about it gets my blood boiling hahaha
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X wasn't "way too hard", it was a welcome change with those sidequests from the piss easy ones we usually get with FF games.
The first time I meet Dark Shiva, the thing moved 3 times in a row, each dealing 9999 damage. I never wasted my time trying for the past 4 years
They went from one extreme to another
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which is why you need to max out the sphere grid and get an armor with the "break hp limit" ability before taking on those dark aeons. Fortunately for me, there wasn't even any point in doing this since I only had the American version which didn't have the dark aeons or Nemisis. Still had the battle arena but that got boring quick, especially since without the special international side quests some of the items to make these battles feasible were an absolute pain to get a hold of. I remember grinding like hell thinking omega weapon at the end of that secret cave (can't remember the name right now) would be a challenge. I killed it in the first hit with wakka and I just started laughing uncontrollably. It was some internet research and a few hours later that I realized I should have bought the international version.
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None of them were too hard. What we really need is a difficulty option, that way the crap gamers (no offence) can't whine :-P
Anybody that thinks getting the entire sphere grid, plus maxed out stats, PLUS a specific skill set, all just to beat one monster is "not hard" is crazy. Us "crap" gamers are picky. I was just trying to point out it was one of the harder FF games :P
Plus there lightning thing was out of control frustrating :( I don't recall having any issue on any FF game like this...
EDIT: I was also not commenting on the "hardest game ever" I was merely commenting on "my take on the Final Fantasy Series". You seem to think 10 was easy, I seem to think it was one of the harder Final Fantasy games, who is right? it's all subjective. But to call me a crap gamer cause I disagree with you is a bit much. But I know the rules of Qhimm, disagree with seifer and get labeled. A poor way to make a point on his part. But this is how it is now and shall always be :P.
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I think the fundamental difference here is that DLPB is grinding a lot more than Mako. FFX is a game which is fairly hard if you don't grind, but ridiculously easy if you grind that much. What's more, grinding isn't difficult, just boring and tedious. A typical player will not grind that much. When I play RPGs, for example, I always fight every enemy in my way unless I'm really low on health and in a hurry to get to the next inn/Pokémon center/magical healing cutscene, but I virtually never go out of my way to FIND additional enemies for experience unless I find myself underpowered and unable to continue at my current strength.
The problem is that too many RPGs, FFX included, essentially treat grinding as a time-consuming cheat code. All you have to do is the same damn thing repeatedly for twelve hours straight to be essentially invincible. It's not tough at all, except on the attention span, and the only real challenge to the game is one of patience. If a player is more focused on the story and wants to get quickly to what happens next, he likely WILL find himself having more trouble as a result.
One game that surprised me and got this aspect astonishingly correct is Pokémon Black/White. Yeah, the games are way on the easy side, but they also severely gimped grinding, by not only increasing the amount of experience needed at higher levels, but reducing the experience gained for battles where the player has a level advantage. When grinding is giving ~1exp per battle, the player pretty much has no choice but to advance the story and continue to an area with more difficult battles, rather than grinding forever and having an army of Lv100's before the game's halfway point.
I'd love to see other, more difficult games take this stance on grinding. It probably won't happen, but I'd love to see it.
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Well it wasn't all about grind in ffx, you had to do the sidequests before you could beat ANY of the harder creatures. You had to customise to break the HP limits. It wasn't ALL sphere grid grinding and you certainly didn't need to get anywhere near filling it to beat nemesis.
It just took dedication and some grinding as well as doing the numerous side quests. I don't think it is fair saying a game is too hard before completing numerous tasks that have to be done to defeat those enemies. And defeating those enemies and doing those quests is purely optional so I see it as a necessity that they are criminally hard to do (which I didn't find X's to be on the whole).
MGS1,2 and BOF3 had a better difficulty based around a more puzzle testing ability. It is all good but some of us want a game to last and to test us in varous ways. It is optional if you want to go that far but
if you make the game easy, you force ALL OF US to take the game easy.
The first time I meet Dark Shiva, the thing moved 3 times in a row, each dealing 9999 damage. I never wasted my time trying for the past 4 years
They went from one extreme to another
It is called maxing out your speed stat which is very easy in X. That's the test. She has huge Speed stat so you need it as well. Why on Titan are you whinging that an optional creature is difficult? Teh dark aeons and penance are for the dedicated grinder, the other creatures and quests are for those who like to to have fun and don't want to grind.
You get an option, I fail to see what people have against the word OPTION.
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You get an option, I fail to see what people have against the word OPTION.
good point :D
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Well it does irk me when I hear "Those big ass super bosses I don't need to beat were big ass super bosses!!!"
I don't go to a bank and complain that people seem to be dealing in lots of money and that I don't seem to be able to get much of it. 8-)
I had a better analogy but let's leave it at that.
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Well it wasn't all about grind in ffx
Nobody said it was...
didn't need to get anywhere near filling it to beat nemesis.
A mostly maxed out player is still needed, but this is invalid. As it still requires a grind.
It just took dedication and some grinding as well as doing the numerous side quests.
Agreed, Much grinding in fact :-P .
I don't think it is fair saying a game is too hard before completing numerous tasks that have to be done to defeat those enemies.
This statement less then makes sense :-( . Are the enemies and side quests not included in the game? Have I been givin' a copy that has them bundled up?! I'm goin' to ebay :-P The game is tedious and challenging, I found it more so then the other Final Fantasy games. So far you haven't named any others that may be debatable. In stead your argument can be summed up with a few words "No it's not".
MGS1,2 and BOF3 had a better difficulty based around a more puzzle testing ability.
Agreed, though I do not remember much puzzles in BoF3...but that doesn't have much to do with my rank of FFX being harder then other games in the series. +2 points for being on topic. :?:
if you make the game easy, you force ALL OF US to take the game easy.
Not bold letters!! stating the absolute obvious. That's it! You're right FFX is the easiest game there is.
It is called maxing out your speed stat which is very easy in X. That's the test.
Is it now? Figured that out in your FIRST playthrough did ya? You are a god amongst men.
Why on Titan are you whinging that an optional creature is difficult? Teh dark aeons and penance are for the dedicated grinder, the other creatures and quests are for those who like to to have fun and don't want to grind.
I gotta say, you are the easiest person to debate things with in the world! You make my point better then I could. You mean to tell me the game gets HARDER! WOW. I may have to bump it up the list. Please continue.
You get an option, I fail to see what people have against the word OPTION.
I don't have a problem with that, I have a problem with you calling me a crappy gamer :-P
All your points are null and void. please try again :?:
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Looks like someone is annoyed that common sense is prevailing. As for speed stat, well yes, it would be rather obvious given that if your enemy is having tons of goes it stands to reason your speed stat is low...
[let's do it by way of sarcasm since you gave me some. > HMmmmmmmmmm I seem to be getting my arsed ripped apart by a super monster which is having tons of goes.. GEEE I WONDER WHY THAT COULD BE?]
Not hard to work it out either that a super boss will require a ton of grinding. Nemesis hardly required any. It did require optimisations, equipment optimisations, and to finish the side quests. If you don;t want to actually, you know, play the game, then don't complain when the game doesn't want to play you.
It boils down to 1 fact really, super bosses are called super bosses for a reason. FFX was not hard for me (aside from Penance). It may have been hard for you. Guess what... stop complaining because no one told you you had to do it. You should have killed jecht and gone to bed.
Anyway I gather you didn't get the harder stuff in NA so looks like square has also had enough of your whinging :P hahaha :lol:
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Devil May Cry 3 is still one of my PS2 games i wasn't able to finish, sadly.
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Just like to remind people that I'd prefer not to spend the rest of this evening on this thread, watching for a flamewar.
Keep it civil.
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Looks like someone is annoyed that common sense is prevailing.
It is to bad it's not in your favor.
Not hard to work it out either that a super boss will require a ton of grinding. Nemesis hardly required any. It did require optimisations, equipment optimisations, and to finish the side quests.
A beginner would not know to optimise for a boss he or she did not meet yet. Even if they did it would require a whole replacement of the sphere grid to do so. This does not help with the side quests though.
I re read your posts, no common sense can be found. Fortunately for you I have plenty to go around! Your arguments are very puzzling... you have offered nothing but "it's not hard" and nothing to back it up besides telling us that there are harder bosses that can be found in the game!
If you don;t want to actually, you know, play the game, then don't complain when the game doesn't want to play you.
I cannot decipher this statement, please rephrease your pointless insults, so that they may someday prove your point.
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I am not in a good mood.
Pray, do not make it worse.
And for the love of god stop sniping at one another. It's embarrassing.
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Don;t worry bosola I've done, enjoy the rest of your day. Mako, learn to stop whinging that super bosses are.. super bosses. :P
It may have been hard for you. Guess what... stop complaining because no one told you you had to do it. You should have killed jecht and gone to bed.
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Sigh...
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Don;t worry bosola I've done, enjoy the rest of your day. Mako, learn to stop whinging that super bosses are.. super bosses. (http://forums.qhimm.com/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Not whinging you stop insisting that I am whinging. I am stating that FFX was a hard game comparatively to the others :-P You had to get one more jab in didn't you :-(
EDIT: I don't see how this is even an issue (for me) I read all my posts noone attack seifer...can't say the same for his. But this will be the last post from me on the subject :/. Seifer can keep his comments going I'm out :)
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If the two of you do not stop this bickering, I will take moderation action. Seifer, I'm letting the next post through (albeit edited) because you made it prior to this edit.
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I never disagreed with that. I agree that comparatively it is, but not when you compare it to truly hard games like MGS1 and 2 special missions or MGS2 euro extreme or even BOF3 for intelligent difficulty (puzzles and so forth).
I agree that X is a step up from the rest in FF terms. No problem with that statement at all. I was not happy with someone being upset that a superboss was a superboss, then you came back with sarcasm. Any case that's done and dusted :P
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The conclusion is that all FF games are easy as hell, but have options for those who wants a challenge. +battle toads for the nes is hard.
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The conclusion is that all FF games are easy as hell, but have options for those who wants a challenge. +battle toads for the nes is hard.
Yeah and for something which wouldn't take them THAT long, they really really should add that option.
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Yeah and for something which wouldn't take them THAT long, they really really should add that option.
You'd be surprised how hard it could be. Look at Crisis Core: they slapped a "hard" mode onto it, raising the HP and stats of all the enemies. It was a complete mess. For RPGs, adding difficulty modes isn't as easy as you'd think.
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Looking back at this topic makes me wonder. Did I get a different copy of FF9 from everyone else? I remember finishing it in a few days and never encountering any serious problems. I can't remember any enemies besides Ozma giving me trouble, and I'm someone who usually gets a lot of Game Overs the first time I play a game.
Or maybe it was the UK that got the special "easy" versions. I remember quite a few letters to the editor in PlayStation magazines back then about the game being too easy, even by FF standards, so I couldn't have been the only one that thought this.
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dont think ff9 was changed .... and ozma was only thing that really gave me an issue tbh (oh and ark). The game was made that way for the excalibur II quest.
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dont think ff9 was changed
I wasn't being serious.
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:o I usually get sarcasm :P One brit to another and all....
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When I think about difficulty when it comes to games I think mostly about balance. Balance is really hard to achieve in games because there are different types of players....its hard to find a game that will satisfy both a grinder and someone who would want to quickly pace through the story.
For me I really like when a game makes me utilize as many different characters, techniques, and items as possible. I hate going through a game and finding things I never had a use for. With this in mind I really liked FFX in that it made every character useful in some scenario. The only problem that with the presence of Aeons that were far superior to most enemies that really didn't always have to be a strategy. Of course Aeons could be one hit KOed in some situations but you could still pull off an overdrive which did substantial damage. I enjoyed the pacing of that game for the most part and found some bosses who were decent however this game suffers the flaw of all of the final fantasy games since 5...you can without too much difficulty become extremely overpowered before the final encounter.
Now FFX did a decent job with making extremly annoying minigames but when you consider that if you go into the final encounter with normal leveling, doing no sidequests and the boss is really nothing to brag about, it puts it in perspective when in just a few hours you can kill him in two hits if you grind and do a couple sidequests. I like the added challenge of optional bosses but IMO the last encounter should be the most difficult in the game. And even Nemesis is not really that much to brag about as has already been stated in this thread.
If the game lets you get powerful in this way, it should allow you a way to test that power, and it should be able to balance that power in a way that cannot be easily exploitable(i.e quick attack over and over, counter/mime or any other crazy materia combination, the holy war item)
With all that being said, one of the most difficult and rewarding games I remember playing was Final Fantasy Tactics. You could grind in the game, and it was helpful to do so but the game curved that a bit by making enemies in random encounters scale with your level, and you would eventually not have the equipment to scale with the level of your opponent, making battles more difficult. I only wish Orlandu wouldn't have been so OP.
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There is no way a final boss could ever be the most difficult.... everyone would be angry at that and some people don't want to spend their lives playing the game or grinding. It is common sense that the hardest be optional, that's the way it is in virtually every rpg I have played.
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FF10 and FF9 definitely had the MOST FRUSTRATING minigames EVER CREATED.
FF9 street racing? Holy shit I got SCARRS FROM THE BLISTERS RUBBING THE BUTTONS ON THE PAD
FF9 springrope jumping? This makes FF10's lightning evading look like silly bullshit
FF10 Butterfly race? jesus christ the randomness -_-
FF10 Lightning evasion? Not anywhere as bad as the springrope jumping in FF9 but HORRIBAD still
FF10 Chocobo Race? SEAGULL IN YOUR FACE MAN. I actually ate-destroyed a pad in rage because I finished at exact 0.0 and I needed -0.1
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There is no way a final boss could ever be the most difficult.... everyone would be angry at that and some people don't want to spend their lives playing the game or grinding. It is common sense that the hardest be optional, that's the way it is in virtually every rpg I have played.
I can understand that. I just wish in that case they would make you finish the main game first before you could become OP.
However...when thinking about the multidisk games in particularly FF7, the final disk just really has the final boss that you have to do. For them to make 2 disks filled with story driven events just to have a 3rd disk with just the final dungeon feels empty to me. Even the optional more difficult content really isn't a substantial amount of gameplay. In this scenario the game kind of lets you do everything else you want to do before the final dungeon, but if you do that then you are easily OP.
I also think that if the weapons are more powerful than Sephiroth...why do you even have to fight him? They could just kill him easily. For that reason also I feel that the final boss should be the most difficult. I guess its just preference, though.
FF10 Chocobo Race? SEAGULL IN YOUR FACE MAN. I actually ate-destroyed a pad in rage because I finished at exact 0.0 and I needed -0.1
I remember doing this on my last playthrough and I got a really low time on one of the beginning levels, and I had to beat that time to get the item which was even harder as the first time was a lucky one, lol
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Toughest games for me, top of my list is chrono cross (XP pukeface)
Just got so annoying and boring at a certain point. Which as close as I can guess is about a 3rd of the way through the game. I also hated the elemental system. Only thing I liked was the concept of switching between two timelines and seeing changes of events and solving puzzles by bringing things over the dimensions. And the Jester girl.
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Street Fighter IV trials are hard too, if you don't use rapid fire/pause trick.
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FF10 and FF9 definitely had the MOST FRUSTRATING minigames EVER CREATED.
FF9 street racing? Holy sh*t I got SCARRS FROM THE BLISTERS RUBBING THE BUTTONS ON THE PAD
FF9 springrope jumping? This makes FF10's lightning evading look like silly bullsh*t
FF10 Butterfly race? jesus christ the randomness -_-
FF10 Lightning evasion? Not anywhere as bad as the springrope jumping in FF9 but HORRIBAD still
FF10 Chocobo Race? SEAGULL IN YOUR FACE MAN. I actually ate-destroyed a pad in rage because I finished at exact 0.0 and I needed -0.1
90% of all FF minigames are, imho, nonsensical, boring or way too tedious (or a mix). It's extra frustrating if a tedious minigame is required to get ultimate weapons etc. FF10 is the worst here imo. Bitzball :| lightning dodging :|
In many cases they're not hard, it just takes a sh*t load of time. I remember trying to get lulu's celestial weapon in FF10. Damn, that lightning minigame is of the chart tedious. It's not hard, you just get bored, lose focus and get hit. You could say it's hard because it's boring lol. Need I mention blitzball... >:(
The minigames I had most fun with is either the snowboard or Choco hot and cold. The snoword game had literally no place in the story, and made no sense. But it was somewhat fun. Choco hot and cold was also a bit fun, but too time consuming.
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That is why it is hard. It tests you in endurance and concentration. Think of it that way.
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I LOVED FF9 Choco Forest games!
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That is why it is hard. It tests you in endurance and concentration. Think of it that way.
There's an important distinction between things that are hard because they require brains or skill and things that are hard because they're boring and no sane person would bother to waste the time doing them. The former are good and the latter bad. Unfortunately, the tedious minigames of the later FFs and the endless grinding of the earlier ones fall into the second category.
FF10 and FF9 definitely had the MOST FRUSTRATING minigames EVER CREATED.
FF9 street racing? Holy shit I got SCARRS FROM THE BLISTERS RUBBING THE BUTTONS ON THE PAD
FF9 springrope jumping? This makes FF10's lightning evading look like silly bullshit
FF10 Butterfly race? jesus christ the randomness -_-
FF10 Lightning evasion? Not anywhere as bad as the springrope jumping in FF9 but HORRIBAD still
FF10 Chocobo Race? SEAGULL IN YOUR FACE MAN. I actually ate-destroyed a pad in rage because I finished at exact 0.0 and I needed -0.1
I can't believe you just bitched about FF9 and 10's minigames without mentioning either the swordfight at the beginning of 9 or the first Blitzball game in 10.
Or 9's card game. What the fuck was up with that? 8 had a brilliant card game, but 9's was just ridiculous.
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No I disagree. There is a distinction between all tests and every test is difficult in its own way. Dodging lighting bolts is difficult because it requires endurance of concentration. I don;t see that as a negative just as a different.
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No I disagree. There is a distinction between all tests and every test is difficult in its own way. Dodging lighting bolts is difficult because it requires endurance of concentration. I don;t see that as a negative just as a different.
Then an awful lot of people disagree with you.
In any case, the "endurance" (as in, "try do keep doing this for an hour without losing the will to live and trying to hang yourself with the cord on your controller") kind of tests are far less enjoyable than tests that require real thought or talent and therefore have no place in entertainment products; they're better suited to Guantanamo Bay. They also require less thought on the part of the developers and are therefore regarded as an example of laziness or lack of creativity.
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My endurance of concentration must be through the roof then, because the last few times I played FFX, I always dodged lightning until I got at least the 3 Strength Spheres. And I always do so the first time I hit the Thunder Plains (hence, no No-Encounters) ... It's not hard to me, you just gotta do it all at the craters near Macalania Forest's entrance, since the rate of the lightning strikes is high and very easy to memorize there.
Anyways, call me crazy, but I like FFX's minigames - blitzball included (the only problem with blitzball being the fact that it gets way too easy way too soon). Err... ...maybe not the chocobo races, though... ...and the minigames in FFX-2 are awful, too. I'd rather dodge lightning than calibrate the towers any day. Or maybe I forgive FFX's mini-games more easily, because FFX is a better game...
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There's an important distinction between things that are hard because they require brains or skill and things that are hard because they're boring and no sane person would bother to waste the time doing them. The former are good and the latter bad. Unfortunately, the tedious minigames of the later FFs and the endless grinding of the earlier ones fall into the second category.
I can't believe you just b*tched about FF9 and 10's minigames without mentioning either the swordfight at the beginning of 9 or the first Blitzball game in 10.
Or 9's card game. What the f*ck was up with that? 8 had a brilliant card game, but 9's was just ridiculous.
9's cardgame served no purpose which is why I left it out. I actually found Blitzball to be INCRDIBLY easy and the sword fight in ff9 was not particularly hard to reach 100.
And tedious and boring tasks are not difficult. Just tedious and boring. The worst minigame of all time is definitely ff9 street racing. The blisters... oh god...
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I actually found Blitzball to be INCRDIBLY easy
I was talking about the first game, when your team is absolute shit. When you get to buy players and pick your team; it becomes ridiculously easy to win every match by huge margins.
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I can't believe you just b*tched about FF9 and 10's minigames without mentioning either the swordfight at the beginning of 9 or the first Blitzball game in 10.
Or 9's card game. What the f*ck was up with that? 8 had a brilliant card game, but 9's was just ridiculous.
1st blitzball game was actualy the only one i considered to be "fun"
agree on the others tho... never managed to impress all the nobles on ff9 fight scene (never even attempted to cause the whole thing is just stupid) and the card game was total crap
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99 of 100 nobles were impressed!
I will find you.
I will find you, and I will make you pay.