The 'Apz may have stolen part of his Cloud model' thread

[BlitzNCS]

Not really deserving of a thread in itself, but I feel there's still one matter that hasn't been cleared up yet that merits at least a two or three post discussion.

Myself and Espio were saying yesterday, how could he have stolen textures (and possibly the mesh of the face) from a game that wasn't even released in japan until two months after he posted it? (Dissidia was released in japan on my birthday which is December, so I remember it well- whereas Apz posted his Cloud in October). Even if there was some sort of demo out on jap PSN that I'm unaware of, I doubt he'd go through the trouble of decompiling it all to obtain a small part of a model. it doesn't make a lot of sense. Thoughts, anyone?

Although, after typing this all up, I realise he didn't release it on his first post, and it did take him a while after posting his initial WIP to actually get it done. Regardless, I'm sure it was finished before MrAdults finished properly decoding the format. Feel free to completely disregard this thread if I've just made a huge arse of myself.

[nikfrozty]

I think we'll just have to forget about it at least for now until Apz is online and prove that it is indeed his model.

[Gemini]

My guess is that he has ripped the texture file himself as soon as the game was available (no real need of particular and complex tools to do so). As for the head mesh, maybe it's original, but I wouldn't really bet on it given all the similarities. Definitively not a "legit" model, anyway.

[Furzball]

Side by side pics people. I see no ripping.

[Kudistos Megistos]

How about this side-by-side comparison?

I dunno, definately doesn't look like it to me. It's similar, but not identical.

They *are* basically identical. Just check the textures, not the textured polygons.

APZ:


Dissidia:


Only eyes, hair, and skin tone are slightly different, but other than that it's the very same texture.

Yes, I didn't want it to be true either, but they do look very similar.

I suppose it's possible that he was just very, very diligent in making his face texture look like the Dissidia one, but that's the less likely of the two explanations.

[Furzball]

Does this mean if found to be true his model will be taken down?

[sl1982]

It already has been.

[Hellbringer616]

I can see a few differences in the face. the position of the eye that is not part of the half head is lower in AZP's version.

In dissidia you can see part of clouds hair below the Chin, in APZ's it's clouds neck (i think)

Nose is fatter in the APZ texture and the lip is longer

Chin is shallower.

Not to mention the metal that is in the Dissidia picture that isn't in APZ's

I remember he posted once or twice (maybe even more) that his second revision of Cloud was going to be a mix of all the different versions of Cloud.

I for one, Don't believe he ripped the texture.

As we saw in the video he made, He can model and texture

[Kudistos Megistos]

The theory is that he and then modified the Dissidia texture, so of course there will be a few differences. However, even if the texture is modified, it still counts as ripped from another game and is just as against the rules as the modified KH Cloud that was posted a few years ago.

[sl1982]

Does anyone have the original texture from dissidia for reference? Im curious if the other parts are the same as well.

[Mako]

I find this ridiculous for him to be even accused of this!. The only reason why his model should be taken down is because he wanted it to be or Qhimm. His model released 2 month's before dissidia release!. Even if he made a program to rip the model and converted them don't you think he could make a simple texture?. This form has seen its share of coincidences and that's all I think this is... I'm just someone who is defending a guy who took his time to give us a great model!. Of course now you can take it down now that all of the "older" members have gotten there taste...It is not my place to make the rules on this forum and I will respect them. But don't bash a good guy who gave you all something great till he explains himself.

PS: The hair texture is all wrong.Chin he completely off and nose texture is different too... 

[Gemini]

Most of the pixels perfectly overlap, like a 98% match. Proof:

30% transparency for Dissidia Cloud in this picture.

Come on boys, it's definitively a rip, no matter the little changes and the blurry pieces he later added to cover it all.

Even if he made a program to rip the model and converted them don't you think he could make a simple texture?

Funny, because only the face has sharp traits, while the rest is all blurry.

[Mako]

Why would he do that?...Its not that hard to make a texture. Sadly APZ was one of the people who inspired me to mod FF7. All washed away in an instant.

EDIT:Reference gone horribly wrong?. I remember someone making Timu model using his tutorials that looked identical, but that was impossible due to him not having the source.

[BlitzNCS]

Mako, I feel exactly the same as you do, but there's too much evidence against him. They're exactly the same size, pixel perfect, and the row of pixels at the top of the face for the connection to the hair is in exactly the same order. Whether we like it or not, however it's happened, it's the same texture.

[Timu Sumisu]

@ sl, i already checked if other parts matched up, its only the face, hair, clothes, the reset, its all different.

As to everyone's idol being shattered, i get you. I got inspired by him too, in fact he got me into ff7 modeling/modding. although mildly shocking, this event should not shake the faith of any of you. whats important is the inspiration you got, and that you keep using it. If you got a jumpstart by being inspired by apz, its in you now to do stuff, don't need apz to hold yer hand .

What he did isnt a huge deal, just doesnt conform with qhimm rules. learning from pros like Square is a great thing to do, and i've gotten much better by studying their textures and models.

[Nightmarish]

http://dissidia.rhapsodos.org/images/art/exmode/cloud.png

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i59/apz_freak/Trophy.jpg

Side by side pics people. I see no ripping.

I don't get it.
In these 2 pic they seem completely different, although the face texture look very similar.

Someone care to explain me?
I mean, i even like Dissidia face better.

[Kudistos Megistos]

Pfft, everyone wishes this weren't true, but it's looking certain that the texture was ripped. sh*t happens.

As to everyone's idol being shattered, i get you. I got inspired by him too, in fact he got me into ff7 modeling/modding. although mildly shocking, this event should not shake the faith of any of you. whats important is the inspiration you got, and that you keep using it. If you got a jumpstart by being inspired by apz, its in you now to do stuff, don't need apz to hold yer hand .

This, 9001 times. It's like the Simpsons episode where Lisa discovers that Jebediah Springfield was a pirate but decides that it wasn't important and that the myth has value since it has inspired people. Except the myth has been revealed this time. Naughty Gemini!

Anyway, even if another person supplied the inspiration, it doesn't matter now that the inspiration has been given; the inspiration to model shouldn't be depleted by the fact that it turns out that the inspiration came from a myth, and the skills people have learnt certainly won't disappear. I mean, some of the greatest works of art come from myths that the creator knew were not true.

I don't get it.
In these 2 pic they seem completely different, although the face texture look very similar.

Someone care to explain me?

The lighting and positions are different, and the head mesh may have been modified, so they're obviously going to look different in these two pics. It's only by looking at the two textures side-by-side and laid out in the same way that we can see that they are identical.

[Mako]

If you got a jumpstart by being inspired by apz, its in you now to do stuff, don't need apz to hold yer hand.

It isn't about that, It was that someone could be so good at modeling FF7 who we all strive to be it be like  and create better stuff. But your right my drive is there and I guess I should still thank him even though he lied >_>. From scratch he said.

[koraz]

It's done! The neck looks funny, but it's FABULOUS! Now I can start making the field model!

Although shamefully I admit that I borrowed heavily from the Dissidia models. I at least have it in my conscience that I built it up polygon by polygon. I know, shameful! 

[ice_cold513]

They do look the same, though their are some little changes.

Just i little side note if APZ model did come out 1st, their was nothing to stop SE from taking his model and using it as in their eyes it belongs to them

[BlitzNCS]

Check the post above you, pretty much proof he definately took stuff from the dissidia texture. He probably just traced the UV maps then, with his custom mesh.
By the way, uh, koraz, you haven't been round here before have you? You know, with like a different account maybe?

[Bosola]

This is still controversial? I thought the evidence was pretty clear. Even forgetting the textures, the vertices etc. were still practically the same. It was pretty evident that it was a rip 'smudged' to appear 'different enough'.

Still, that doesn't mean the entirety of Apz's work is to be chucked, nor that his fans should become too downhearted. Whatever he did this time, he's still given us a great deal.

[koraz]

@NCS
No, I don't have another account. But, I have browsed the forum off and on for several years, more frequently during the summer as I'm in college doing engineering... different kind of 3D modeling.
Edit:
I know there was a koral, but my name is actually just a password for me to remember for some other account (email, myspace, or something else). An anagram for zorak, from space ghost.

[obesebear]

Check the post above you, pretty much proof he definately took stuff from the dissidia texture. He probably just traced the UV maps then, with his custom mesh.
By the way, uh, koraz, you haven't been round here before have you? You know, with like a different account maybe?

lol, I don't think she's coming back dude.

[BlitzNCS]

lol, I don't think she's coming back dude.

Hay, I wuz just curious

Nevermind, koraz.