Author Topic: Male Characters and their Masculinity? (Read 9077 times)

BloodShot · « **on:** 2011-05-24 21:25:39 »

Yes the thread title is weird, but I was playing Ehrgeiz with a friend and he said something that made me realize this.

If you look at the Cloud model in Ehrgeiz, and then in a newer game like say, dissidia, you might notice something about his design.

He is a lot more muscular in Ehrgeiz. When you look at him, his muscles aren't bulging, but they certainly have definition and are of a fair size- while dissidia they have some definition, but they just look really thin.

This is also true for the Final battle models IN ff7. Cloud had larger arms than dissidia, and Sephiroth was extremely muscular at the end. When you look at the "executioner" costume in dissidia, you can barely see any muscles on his chest.

And it's not just FF7 characters. It seems all FF characters in general have gotten progressively more stick-like. It's just got me thinking as to why square enix would make their characters so much skinnier, especially since in most of their stuff now they perform ridiculous feats.

Armorvil · « **Reply #1 on:** 2011-05-24 21:51:35 »

Because Japanese girls like their Bishies. Big muscles are out of fashion nowadays.

BloodShot · « **Reply #2 on:** 2011-05-24 21:52:41 »

Yeah i suppose. It seems more like "sense" is out of fashion nowadays.

Kudistos Megistos · « **Reply #3 on:** 2011-05-24 22:47:44 »

Wait, you've only just noticed this?

The rest of the world has been noticing this for years: male characters in Japanese games are becoming more feminine. Especially male characters in Squeenix games. Especially male characters in Squeenix's FF7 spin-offs.

It's unsurprising, since the fashion in Japan for the past few years has been for androgyny. Just look at Japanese bands: it's often hard to tell which are boy bands and which are girl bands, such is the effeminacy of the men.

It's also worth noting that as graphics become more detailed, skinny characters become more feasible. Imagine how a skinny character would have looked in the original FF7.

Tekkie.X · « **Reply #4 on:** 2011-05-24 23:01:20 »

Old male sprites, MANLY AS BAWLZ.

New Male 3d models, Vaan, enough said.

BloodShot · « **Reply #5 on:** 2011-05-25 01:48:51 »

Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-05-24 22:47:44

Wait, you've only just noticed this?...

True, I have noticed it before, but I never realized the magnitude of how much the characters have changed in FF7 alone. It's kind of ironic if you think about it considering what SE did to the series - all Japanese trends aside, they redesigned the characters with more realism in mind, and the end result is just the opposite.

Covarr · « **Reply #6 on:** 2011-05-25 18:40:48 »

It's related to current perceptions of muscle-bound characters in Japan. When we think muscles in most of the rest of the world, we think of strong, manly characters like Rambo. However, Japan has entirely different stereotypes:

Jean Armstrong, from the third Phoenix Wright game

With images like this mucking up their concept of muscular/bodybuilders, is it any wonder that protagonists are shying away from that look?

For further examples, look at FF7 itself: the gym in the Wall Market, the Honeybee Inn's "Group Room", etc.

BloodShot · « **Reply #7 on:** 2011-05-25 18:49:52 »

So they want to be weak just because they don't want to look gay?

Timu Sumisu · « **Reply #8 on:** 2011-05-25 21:45:47 »

supplies some horrifying credance to all the cloudxsephi yaoi over the years @.@

DarkFang · « **Reply #9 on:** 2011-05-25 22:38:42 »

Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-05-24 22:47:44

The rest of the world has been noticing this for years: male characters in Japanese games are becoming more feminine.

Capcom is apparently doing the opposite.

Bosola · « **Reply #10 on:** 2011-05-25 22:52:54 »

I'll just leave this here:

Jenova's Witness · « **Reply #11 on:** 2011-05-25 23:20:16 »

Opine · « **Reply #12 on:** 2011-05-27 17:06:08 »

I don't think it's just Japan fashion.
I think androgynous beauty is something currently admired worldwide.
Probably just a trend. But it's what's *in* now.

yarLson · « **Reply #13 on:** 2011-05-27 18:13:44 »

wow thats the most legit picture of cloud ever

Hellbringer616 · « **Reply #14 on:** 2011-05-27 20:19:51 »

Manly cloud has no need for a party!

Tekkie.X · « **Reply #15 on:** 2011-05-28 13:48:11 »

Someone get that modelled ASAP.

Kudistos Megistos · « **Reply #16 on:** 2011-05-28 15:33:03 »

Quote from: Opine on 2011-05-27 17:06:08

I don't think it's just Japan fashion.
I think androgynous beauty is something currently admired worldwide.
Probably just a trend. But it's what's *in* now.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4435/unledead.th.png

Bieber isn't a good example. Girls just starting puberty like him, but everyone else in the Western world hates him.

And he isn't really effeminate; he's pre-pubescent. You can tell that he's a boy; you just can't tell whether his balls have dropped. With a lot of Japanese male idoru, it's hard to tell whether they're men or women.

nfitc1 · « **Reply #17 on:** 2011-05-29 00:03:19 »

Quote from: Hellbringer616 on 2011-05-27 20:19:51

Manly cloud has no need for a party!

The pipe is a bit of a killjoy though.

yarLson · « **Reply #18 on:** 2011-06-02 18:25:45 »

Quote from: NFITC1 on 2011-05-29 00:03:19

The pipe is a bit of a killjoy though.

I disagree. I think its a nice touch IMO

haha if I had more skills I woulda model this guy for sure and just beef his stats a little and remove everyone else in the game.

Raestloz · « **Reply #19 on:** 2011-06-03 03:33:38 »

Even in his original artwork, Cloud is already "not muscular" :shrug:
Maybe they simply went back to the basics? Or just too lazy to sculpt muscles and put their effort in sculpting not too necessary accessories instead

Jenova's Witness · « **Reply #20 on:** 2011-06-04 16:33:05 »