Author Topic: Ohh yeah! (Read 31328 times)

DLPB_ · « **Reply #25 on:** 2013-10-21 15:53:51 »

To be fair the game writers made sure you knew from the word go just by the psycho music haha

meesbaker · « **Reply #26 on:** 2013-10-21 15:59:38 »

"DEATH AWAITS YOU"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTwUklYtais

I remember I always killed seymor flux with zanmato! I hated when yojinbo automatically pulled out wakizashi and got "death awaits you"ed.

Covarr · « **Reply #27 on:** 2013-10-21 16:03:50 »

Quote from: meesbaker on 2013-10-21 15:50:49

seriously the voice acting is one of the best things about ffx imo

Some of the voice acting is great... and some of it is Tidus. James Arnold Taylor has a history of incompetent voice performances. He's gotten better over the years (he's pretty decent in Johnny Test, even though the show itself is a steaming pile of whatsit), but Final Fantasy X was one of the first roles he got, and his amateurishness really showed. On the other hand, Wakka was played by John DiMaggio, who has a history of absolutely stellar voice performances (including a Joker even better than Mark Hamill or Heath Ledger).

OT: The best scene from any RPG is all of Chrono Trigger. Pick a scene, any scene, and it will be better than almost the entirety of most other RPGs. And then there's this:

Yes, that's right. Chrono Trigger's GAME OVER screen is better IMO than any scene or moment in this thread so far. Really a testament to how near to perfection the game itself was.

edit:

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-10-21 15:53:51

To be fair the game writers made sure you knew from the word go just by the psycho music haha

This is a mark of either bad writing or bad music direction. If you were supposed to know, it should've been obvious without the music. If you weren't supposed to know, the music shouldn't have given it away. In either case, the reveal should be the script's responsibility.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #28 on:** 2013-10-21 17:13:42 »

Not sure I agree with that, it's possible they just wanted to hint at it without making sure you knew.

Luceid · « **Reply #29 on:** 2013-10-21 18:11:08 »

Since some great things have already been taken, I go with Grandia (1):

During the game you literally cross the end of the world, a gigantic wall of unknown origin.
On it's top one sees, that it's not the end of the world, but more likely it's beginning.

meesbaker · « **Reply #30 on:** 2013-10-21 18:18:34 »

I liked James as Tidus a lot. The great thing about ffx was the first person narrator tidus and taylor did a great job imo. "Listen to my story" gives me chills

The guy is pretty genius anyway : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM4RMo0R2Vc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I dont think I could imagine ffx without tidus' voice. I still godda play chrono trigger.

Rundas · « **Reply #31 on:** 2013-10-21 19:16:37 »

I feel like Mother 3 would hold up to Chrono Trigger if it was released outside of Japan and more people knew about it. Not that it's obscure, but a lot of people never took the time to play it because they had to patch the translation, emulate it, etc.

genesis063 · « **Reply #32 on:** 2013-10-24 23:23:14 »

I would actually probably say mine would be when you see Skeith for the first time in Infection. The music along with his speed and invincibility. Not once after facing Skeith did any of the other phases of Morgana give me a sense of fighting a losing battle.

Vgr · « **Reply #33 on:** 2013-10-25 02:41:39 »

Have to agree with Covarr here. Chrono Trigger is badass in its entirety. Heck, someone who totally disliked RPGs tried Chrono Trigger and got addicted and kept playing. I was proud.

My favorite scene? Ragnarok busting up Lunatic Pandora. Second place goes to the whole transformation of Balamb Garden University, from the launch in the missile base to the landing in the sea.

gjoerulv · « **Reply #34 on:** 2013-10-25 03:12:17 »

Quote from: meesbaker on 2013-10-21 15:50:49

WHUUT? seriously the voice acting is one of the best things about ffx imo...it makes the whole way the story is told so much more powerful and alive.

No... I'm not trying to be awkward, but ff10 sucks! FFxii > ffx. The last good ff game imo: ff9! And i'm drunk as shit! ypur welcome!!

DLPB_ · « **Reply #35 on:** 2013-10-25 03:57:14 »

Quote from: gjoerulv on 2013-10-25 03:12:17

No... I'm not trying to be awkward, but ff10 sucks! FFxii > ffx. The last good ff game imo: ff9! And i'm drunk as shit! ypur welcome!!

I have to totally disagree.

gjoerulv · « **Reply #36 on:** 2013-10-25 04:37:32 »

10 vs 12 on voice acting alone, 12 least beats the shit out of 10. Not to mention most cs. Vaan vs Tidus is like comparing turd and poop, Imo. 12 is a hell less of an embarrassment. 12, In many cases not good, but, nevertheless, a better told story altogether.

Auron don't belong in this mess.

luksy · « **Reply #37 on:** 2013-10-25 05:04:31 »

I prefer 12 over X too, then again I am a self-confessed Matsuno fanboy. As far as Squaresoft goes FFT, Vagrant Story, and FF12 are by far my favorites, although I prefer the first two gameplay-wise, and both have a plot that IMHO puts most of the main FFs to shame.

genesis063 · « **Reply #38 on:** 2013-10-25 06:05:41 »

Quote from: gjoerulv on 2013-10-25 04:37:32

10 vs 12 on voice acting alone, 12 least beats the sh*t out of 10. Not to mention most cs. Vaan vs Tidus is like comparing turd and poop, Imo. 12 is a hell less of an embarrassment. 12, In many cases not good, but, nevertheless, a better told story altogether.

Auron don't belong in this mess.

This maybe due to how drunk you are but do you realize you are comparing people that had completely opposite exposure in the games? You can't really say much about Vaan because the most dialogue he had was in the very beginning aside from that he barely interacted with the rest of the cast basically almost being non-existent which is what pissed me off about 12.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #39 on:** 2013-10-25 14:43:10 »

Quote from: genesis063 on 2013-10-25 06:05:41

You can't really say much about Vaan because the most dialogue he had was in the very beginning aside from that he barely interacted with the rest of the cast basically almost being non-existent which is what pissed me off about 12.

This. FFXII's script was bare-bones. The character development was non existent, and for a Final Fantasy game that is a critical error. Even among die hard FFXII fans I have debated this with there has been an acceptance that the story itself was completely lacking. The voice acting might have been pretty good (at least Balthier), but the sound quality was poor, and the script was "Hey, we need to get to B, so let's get there! YAY!" The bosses in the game had nothing to do with the plot, because there wasn't one. You'd be walking along when all of a sudden a big tree lizard attacked you for no reason other than "it's a boss" (I really thought we'd moved away from that sort of thing).

I don't want to get into a big debate about this but I guess that's what happens

The game-play was lacklustre too imho. Gambits took all the tactics and brainpower away from you; for 90% of the game I survived on 2 gambits as my characters mindlessly slashed away. Random treasure was a silly idea. The areas were great but filled with nothing as you walked for miles on end, and sidequests and user input was down to a minimum.

In FFX you get complete control of your characters and even Summons, you get little quirks with the limit breaks (like entering a code, or pressing button at correct time, or liming up slots). There is nothing like this in XII. It's just one long trudge, and the gamer comes second at all times. Even the AI was lazy. FFXII deploys the most lazy battle mechanic too "Heaps of HP = harder".

It's a complete mystery to me how anyone puts this game above X... I've racked my brain over it a lot, but I haven't got an answer!

The only thing it beats X on imho is the graphics (and perhaps voice acting, which doesn't really count as part of a game anyway). Even the music has to go to X.

meesbaker · « **Reply #40 on:** 2013-10-25 16:28:13 »

Dont drink and debate

FFXII has terrible characters, confusing and ridiculous story line and a main character whos just ... uhm not really male. I found xii to be almost as messed up as xiii while x is one of my favorites ever.

Covarr · « **Reply #41 on:** 2013-10-25 16:38:37 »

XII is a great game to play for the gameplay (when the dungeons aren't busy being Straight Line Zone, which is sometimes), and the gambit system is hella cool... but I have to agree about the story. I didn't care for the story in X, I thought it was over the top and kind of a mess, but at least it was there. XII's story was like 90% filler.

genesis063 · « **Reply #42 on:** 2013-10-25 18:05:42 »

I agree with all if not most of your guys points. It was said for XII that they wanted the main character Vaan to give you a feel of you being in that kind of story. Good thing they only kept that around just for XII. I felt XII could of been way better if they just didn't wing it. Also in order to defeat a certain boss you had to pick up an item from regular enemies which was so freaking lame. How am I suppose to know you have to do that.

gjoerulv · « **Reply #43 on:** 2013-10-25 18:46:59 »

Haha, pretty off topic here.

Best scene from any rpg... Hmmm... I must have had one in mind when I started this but I can't remember.

Quote from: meesbaker on 2013-10-25 16:28:13

Dont drink and debate

FFXII has terrible characters, confusing and ridiculous story line and a main character whos just ... uhm not really male. I found xii to be almost as messed up as xiii while x is one of my favorites ever.

Do I smell fanboyism getting in the way here?
I recognise both as good games (not 13). When calling 10 great and 12 shitty at the same time there have to be something clouding ones judgement.

Most FFs have some confusing stuff that don't makes sense. I bet if I asked a FF10 fan what the deal is with Tidus I would could get a 10 page wall of text answer. And (I don't know if it counts) FF10-2 messed up the story really good. So, Tidus is a dream of the fayth who wants the dream to end? How is he manifested as a real person? As I understand it, the fayth based Tidus on the villain from FF10-2. Then shouldn't his name be the same as that villain? And what about that hot gf summoner that villain had? Did the fayth forget about her or did Auron pick up Tidus before he met her?
The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that there will always be things you simply have to accept in stories like these. The more of the ludicrous stuff you manage to swallow, the more appreciative the story gets.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #44 on:** 2013-10-25 18:50:45 »

I hate FFX-2 story (I haven't met anyone who likes it)... You can't use that to knock X, any more than you can use a FFVII spin off to sully the story of VII

gjoerulv · « **Reply #45 on:** 2013-10-25 18:55:49 »

Fair enough, but it wasn't the point. The point was there is confusing stuff that don't makes sense in both games, and in most, if not all FFs.

meesbaker · « **Reply #46 on:** 2013-10-26 01:57:11 »

I AM a fanboy of Final Fantasy. But the games enix come up with are not Final Fantasy they just call it that. I dont know any person with an iq>20 who doesnt hate x-2(In fact I dont know anyone like that). Thats the first game not developed by Squaresoft but squareenix. Cant be coincidential...

The assertion that one has to like 12 if x is good is pointless to me. I dont see where they belong together. X is like the old games just with voices and better graphics.

XII continued what X-2 started and what XIII got "perfect": Messed up battle system, stupid characters and a storyline not to care about. Enix is diabolic they kill Final Fantasy, the whole compilation of ff7 is a rapture of my beautiful childhood memories.

genesis063 · « **Reply #47 on:** 2013-10-26 10:16:36 »

Quote from: gjoerulv on 2013-10-25 18:46:59

Haha, pretty off topic here.

Best scene from any rpg... Hmmm... I must have had one in mind when I started this but I can't remember.

Do I smell fanboyism getting in the way here?
I recognise both as good games (not 13). When calling 10 great and 12 sh*tty at the same time there have to be something clouding ones judgement.

Most FFs have some confusing stuff that don't makes sense. I bet if I asked a FF10 fan what the deal is with Tidus I would could get a 10 page wall of text answer. And (I don't know if it counts) FF10-2 messed up the story really good. So, Tidus is a dream of the fayth who wants the dream to end? How is he manifested as a real person? As I understand it, the fayth based Tidus on the villain from FF10-2. Then shouldn't his name be the same as that villain? And what about that hot gf summoner that villain had? Did the fayth forget about her or did Auron pick up Tidus before he met her?
The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that there will always be things you simply have to accept in stories like these. The more of the ludicrous stuff you manage to swallow, the more appreciative the story gets.

Answering your question about Tidus. There was a question posed and the creators said that you can't really call him a fayth remake as they have completely different personalities. Remember Shuyin came from an age of war. The dream Zanarkand is just a hallow shell of what the once great city was before war and strife. I think the main reason Shuyin looked like Tidus was because Square noticed how popular he was mostly given to the emotional impact of him and Yuna parting. Also they probably used it as an excuse to make the previous cast have something to aim for as a plot device.

Bosola · « **Reply #48 on:** 2013-10-26 14:51:01 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-10-25 14:43:10

The game-play was lacklustre too imho. Gambits took all the tactics and brainpower away from you; for 90% of the game I survived on 2 gambits as my characters mindlessly slashed away. Random treasure was a silly idea. The areas were great but filled with nothing as you walked for miles on end, and sidequests and user input was down to a minimum.

It's like Square identified all the worst aspects of MMORPGs - the arbitrary and unfair randomized mechanics, the focus on looting, the fixation on killing numbers of beasts - without figuring out a way to substitute the best parts of those games, namely the feeling of progression, a sense of mastery and the random interactions with your teammates.

Quote

In FFX you get complete control of your characters and even Summons, you get little quirks with the limit breaks (like entering a code, or pressing button at correct time, or liming up slots). There is nothing like this in XII. It's just one long trudge, and the gamer comes second at all times. Even the AI was lazy. FFXII deploys the most lazy battle mechanic too "Heaps of HP = harder".

The basic way to play XII is to find an auto-grind spot at the earliest opportunity, wait until you're overlevelled, and then plow through the rest of the dungeons as fast as possible. At least that way you can keep track of the (terrible) story - otherwise, with four or five hours between story points (thanks to dungeon length), you forget what's going on.

Quote

It's a complete mystery to me how anyone puts this game above X... I've racked my brain over it a lot, but I haven't got an answer! The only thing it beats X on imho is the graphics (and perhaps voice acting, which doesn't really count as part of a game anyway). Even the music has to go to X.

Graphics? Besides the dodgy HUD design, FFXII is vibrant, sharp, and shows off a consistent art design (I know the Yevon patterns are overused, but they do suggest a coherent Spiran architecture). You can differentiate areas in ways that reflect the game lore and battle animations show great momentum and force. XII's graphics are nothing like that. Muddy, samey dungeons with homogenous architecture; floaty, ineffective battle animations; hackneyed pseudo-Renaissance styling.

Final Fantasy XII is not a good game.

gjoerulv · « **Reply #49 on:** 2013-10-26 22:43:27 »

More random stuff about 10 that I found annoying and/or bad from the top of my head:

The underwater breathing. Or do they hold their breath?
The physics underwater.
Yes, this is fantasy, but we are expected to accept it at face value. If you can accept it, fine, but I reserve my rights to call bullshit on it.

A blitzball as a weapon. Lulu's stuffed toys as weapons. I facepalmed at this. I think I hurt my face.

Tidus' blatant stupidity as a plot device. And also the fact that Tidus is the protagonist. Yuna, Auron or even Jecht would be better choices. I get the first-person-point-of-view narration mode they're going for, still those 3 persons I mentioned are far better protagonist choices. That, or they could have made Tidus a more relatable, and far less annoying person. Who relates to a sport-star crybaby idiot from a futuristic society.

Recycled dialogue every 20 minutes or so. (Sin is Jecht... This is my story... Sin is bad... Zanarkand... blah, blah, blah). This isn't necessarily bad, but imo annoyingly executed.

Stupid hairdos. Wakka... Seymour...

Yuna's resolve to confront Seymour alone was stupid. Not brave, just stupid. In both writing and resolve. She even had at least 2 perfect chances to send him after they killed him. Why didn't she?

The Al Bhed kidnapping summoners. Ok, so they are against summoners sacrificing themselves for the greater good, yet no problem killing of guardians in the process. Rikku's brother had no problem sending a death tank after the party his sister was in. "Hey father, I rescued Yuna but I had to kill Rikku in the process." Cid: "That's fine, as long as Yuna is ok. We can't have her sacrificing herself, now can we?"

The "rescue Yuna" as a plot device. Yes, we are her guardians, but come on... How many times do we need to play the save-Yuna card?

Flow of events considering time. Try to make sense of the flow of time after they kill Seymour for the 1st time, 'til they escape Bevelle.
The snow yeti breaks the ice; you fall more than a 100 feet to your death, yet you survive. Then Sin magically transports you to Bikanel island where Yuna is taken by the Al Bhed. Somehow the Yevon squad manages to get to Home, wreack havoc and kidnapp Yuna before your party arrives. Then they transport Yuna to Bevelle, prepare a wedding before you -who have the only airship in the world- manges to get there. It makes less than 0 sense.

After they crash the wedding they go to the -tediously annoying- cloister of trials to get Bahamut. Why? Isn't it painfully obvious you would get caught there? Even more stupid is the execution by sewer. We know Mika wants them dead (he orders his underlings to kill anyone who tries to escape); why not do it in a more efficient way? It's not like this method is a settled, or preferred form of punishment in Spira. At least as far as we, the audience, know. I may have accepted it if it was foreshadowed more. In the end, this is a double plot induced stupidity moment.

Why did not Auron tell the others about Yunalesca? I don't buy "you wouldn't have believed me if I told you" crap. Then why tell Tidus that Sin is Jecht? In the light of Yunalesca's case the Jecht thing would make sense at once, so why not? Preparing all the guardians for what's ahead, not just Tidus, would be a smart thing to do. The perfect opportunity to do this would be the campfire scene. It would make for a shocking reveal at the same time blend it together with the intro, making it more memorable. Instead we get a "This is my story" bullsh*t repeat. Is this were all those narrations from Tidus happened? And the story 'til now was all a flashback? Did he just narrate his whole trip to the rest of the party? ...Yeah I know it's not the case, but then, who is his narration meant for. We, the players? It doesn't sound like that either: "Listen to my story. This may be our last chance."

The plan to defeat Sin by song. Need I even need to elaborate on this?

The defeat of sin by blitzball and stuffed moogle toys. No one in the history have ever managed to defeat Sin by any means (except the final summoning of course), yet here we are fighting him with medieval (and stupid) conventional weapons. I guess it's expected in the spirit of jrpgs. That doesn't mean it makes more sense and is less unacceptable.

I could go on. In almost every scene there is something stupid, annoying sh*t going on that bugs the hell out of me. Still I recognise as a good game overall, but not because of the story. The themes and messages square tried to get across may be good though.