[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[DLPB_]

I was planning on doing that - you're right.  But now I ain't.  In fact, I am going to elaborate on it.

Can someone please keep these unhinged lunatics away from my thread?  Even the capital letters thing is really juvenile and yesteryear.  If you want respect - that - and you're horrible conversation with me on Discord the other day - ain't it.

Also, no one is going to come asking you for help TO.  Don't worry.  But don't come to me asking for any help either.  Trust me, you'll need me a whole lot more.  I gave up asking you for help a while back when you made it clear you want your project to be the only game in town and took great efforts in saying repeatedly "I am only supporting ffnx now".  Well, when you forked from the source I supplied you, you forgot just one thing, didn't you...?  I can fork back at a later date.  That's your fault for being so short sighted.

And for anyone else here, let me make it clear.  In 1 month, had TO worked with me, we'd have accomplished more than TO did alone for 2 years.  Even now, they're trying to add SFX and music into the game and it will never match what I've done.  A waste of effort because they refused absolutely to work with me on The Reunion.

The Reunion will outlast you, and so will I. 

your selfish framework

That I asked you to work with me on.  That you agreed to help me with.  That I would have opened source to you with. 

You didn't want that.  Your way doesn't work because you're adding bells, whistles, silly gimmicks, and trying to do way too much instead of concentrating on the essentials.  Your shader support is knackered by using bgfx and that's one of many things you need to fix.

I've already stripped out 95% of the nonsense in my fork.

[DLPB_]

Finally, let's look at the net result of TO's betrayal 2 year's ago....  the reunion has simply added all benefits from ffnx anyway meaning it was pointless.  everything i wanted i got anyway in the end.  My ddraw source is closed because of the kind of behaviour you displayed 2 years ago.  You must have a short memory as only 2 weeks ago we argued about this and your response was "lol.  so?"  I'll provide screen shots as evidence in the next gpl license

[TrueOdin]

Finally, let's look at the net result of TO's betrayal 2 year's ago....  the reunion has simply added all benefits from ffnx anyway meaning it was pointless.  everything i wanted i got anyway in the end.  My source is closed because of the kind of behaviour you displayed 2 years ago.  You must have a short memory as only 2 weeks ago we argued about this and your response was "lol.  so?"  I'll provide screen shots as evidence in the next gpl license

This is the most childish reaction I could have ever seen. You pull history on your side. Feel free to post screenshots. Are you looking for public judging? You forget your Framework is made of pieces from all devs working here on Qhimm DIFFERENTLY than you, than your attitude of being selfish.

Shall I be afraid that you will fork it? Let me call mama then! Please do it, and fuck it up your own way as you'll be the only one to blame and maintain that. You scraped 95% out of it? I wonder what did you keep. The driver hooks to talk to the engine? LOL. You're just pathetic, not even allowing your own users to know what they are going to use. Instead you're just going to attach more noise and more useless crap no one care other than you yourself.

And your attitude of "I was going to do it, but now I'm not" it's perpetual. All over Qhimm you always say that. And you do it in purpose. You wait to piss off people so much that you take revenge next, just because our patience has a limit.

Have fun with your toy. Fork, smash, put your name on it, keep your donations for yourself. Do what you please, as long as you're out of my way.

Cheers.

[DLPB_]

as i said on your thread, unlike you i respect other people's work and don't need to be forced into adding credit.  You will be credited but folks will know exactly what i think of you. Good day, sir.    "my users" know exactly what they're going to use because there's an option file and a help file, genius.  You've got a very good way of alienating support.  You may recall a few weeka back i offered to supply all my work on 60fps mod to be added to your dll as a good will gesture and olive branch, which you threw right back in my face in our discord chat and left no doubt in my mind you only understand action and ruthless arrogance.  Well, dude.... anyone who knows me could tell you making an enemy out of me isn't smart and that im ruthless and vindictive and utterly without remorse to people who do what you have done.  I'm not your average intellect nor your average snivelling coward either.  Boo hoo.

[urgdfriend]

All things considered I have helped bug test some of the game with DLPB, I Think he has been fairly open about what has been done and what he is doing. And has been more then willing to work with people. Not taking sides and seeing things on the side of an outsider (for the most part) It feels like True Odin has done nothing but belittle everything and anything he can, We all love FF7 and want to see it at it's peak, Personally it sounds like TO has no patience at all. All things considered Reunion works for the majority with a bug here and there thats being worked on to the best that the engine can take, Meanwhile it seems like FFNX has a few problems (which is fair considering it's trying to replace the outdated renderers with modern ones.) So I'm not going to bash on it cause it will make a big difference once everything is 100% done.

I honestly feel like a lot of this is just bad blood between you guys, All I want is to be able to play the most definitive version of FF7, Cause I love this game, I love what it means for me. And I would love for everyone to be able to play it without having to worry that there can be crashes and errors and bugs. It's not either of your guys's fault that Eidos had an outdated build from the get go and had to deal with what they had back in 97, Why can't you just work this out like the grownups you both are and put aside your issues and make things the best they can be, Even if it has to be apart.

[satsuki]

@DLPB
Lets be clear, you offered to share 60 fps work for only one raison, the 60fps in its current way is way from perfect, in steal picture it's almost working but any time the camera moving it's horible.
So you offered to share you work on it ONLY because you hope TO will fix it...

If you wanted to share something usefull witch realy help community, you'll have offered the external sound engine, witch is (to mind mind) the only good part about reunion (i don't speack about retranslation witch is probably great but as a non english user...).

About shader, your complaining about it because you don't understand how to use it and you can't just use the crt shader (from Sunwalker) you use currently in reunion.
Bgfx shader is realy powerfull but more complex to use.
So you want to use ffnx without put any effort in it ....
Just took some time to study bgfx shader then share your great work on it, anyone will be happy with it

Help should go both way, you've complaining about png loading time in ffnx witch was broken (instead of trying to code a way to solve it and so helping ffnx), and TO took time and effort in solving it, even if png is useless for mods in ff7 comparing to dds bc7... but when some ask you to share your work so ffnx can be improved and anyone can freely choose between your job and ffnx, you don't

Your keep saying that 2 project about the same function is reinventing the wheel and a big lost in time, but the reality is if your source was open, both your source and other project can benefits because using a part from your code in another project can be improved by this other project and the final user can choose that he want.

Just look as linux opensource, hundred of version, is it a lost of time ? no, each version benefits from the work on other version, and the final user get that he want.
The only 2 valid raisons you keep your code closed are selfishness and the fear from other can found a better way from your current work and you'll finish to be forgotten... (but in opensource you'll always be in credits anyway)

So long story short, i always have been kind to you, alway helping you the best i can with my limited knowledge each time you've asked me, but i'm pissed of your selfish attitude, you never share with me ANY code nor hex value when i tryied to adapt some function for the french exe (from ochu for exemple), so i add to spend lots of time to figure it myself.... so won't help you anymore from now, i'll keep helping open source project only.

[DLPB_]

Firstly, nobody needs your help, satsuki.  We're all capable of placing your packs into the game.

Secondly, does anyone else around here see the problem?

I am criticized for having closed source project (and it's still closed precisely because of how QP and TO behaved).

I offered full source 60fps battles (which is largely coded by me AND has many fixes not in the Hext release)...  and now I'm criticized for that too haha.  I just can't win with you people, can I?   

Did anyone go after Aali when he had his source closed for years - until he retired?
 Just think about how demented you sound...  Without him working on his dll in private, there wouldn't even be a discussion here.  QP and TO wouldn't be here.  FFNx wouldn't be here.

Let's cut to the meat of it.  Everyone should know you've made it clear you're on Team Odin side.  Your conversations with me in Discord have all been biased. You've even made claims that I was unwilling to help you with Reunion modification - which simply isn't true.

And why are you getting involved again?  What has this got to do with you?  It's because you're simply friends with the guy and doing his bidding.

And why are we even talking about this again?  It's because your pals won't let it go. You, Sithlord, and True Odin have continued to come onto my thread to bait me - despite the mods saying repeatedly that it wouldn't be allowed to happen.

Which brings up an interesting point.... does anyone here think I'd get away with what you and Sithlord and True Odin have been doing lately?  Please, leave my thread and don't come back.

To the mods:  Why don't you start pretending to actually be impartial.

and TO took time and effort in solving it

Initially had no intention of fixing it - and 3 other bug reports left on github have been left with message "this is bgfx - nothing to do with me"  - One of them "Well, no one else has complained yet"  LOL

It doesn't matter what you and Sithlord and True Odin say or do.  The Reunion is going to win out over time.  Call my project selfish.  Lie to people that what happened 2 years ago didn't happen.  Whinge.  Stamp.  Moan.  This project isn't going anywhere.  It was here before you.  It will be here after you.  And it's goal is one that's achievable and one tat I believe people will ultimately use long term - it's  easier to use and it's one solution.  And it has all the benefits of FFNx anyway.  So what exactly does his project have that mine does not? 

Think about it.

[DLPB_]

And I think anyone with any sense can see the sabotage agenda going on here.  It's quite clearly a nasty little vendetta going on -  The initial and laughable attempt to close me down failed - so the new tactic is to come on here and hound me.  Well, it won't work.  You're all just going on ignore forever.

In the end, it's not you or that rabble who will decide - it's the fans.  They'll decide what to use.  Not you.  And I honestly think that people should take a long hard look at how True Odin and QP and the rest of his project have behaved and ask one question:  Can they be trusted?  Is this someone you can really support?  I don't think so.

Also, please quit pretending True Odin is a saint.  No one believes it.

Quote from: DLPB on Today at 00:10:07
I commend you on the bug fixes and joypad support in case that isn't clear.  All i asked for when i came to you 2 years ago was that kind of thing.  Despite the fact im never going to work with you from this point on nor acknowledge your existence again after this post, i want you to know i believe in full credit and people will know exactly what additions in reunion come from you.  I'll also continue to supply bug reports as that aids my project as well.

True Odin:
There's no need as I'll never support Reunion. Simple as that.

It also doesn't concern me if people do or don't use The Reunion.  See, here's the thing:  A lot of what I do is for my own growth.  To have a solution that my friends (who keep asking when this will be complete) can play.  To allow for people to choose to play it and have an alternative.  To have the game to a standard it never had in 1997.  That's my drive.

It's not for fame.  It's not for money.  It's partly ego, I will grant you that.  But not like TO and QP.  Nearly entirely for ego and fame.  So go to their project.  It doesn't bother me.  Even if only 1 person ended up using The Reunion - it would still be 1 person.  It wouldn't undo what I've done or the learning and satisfaction I've had. 

I am not like True Odin.  I never want to be.   

I am drawing a line under this now.  There's no point in asking, you'll get no reply.

[satsuki]

You'll never understand anything... with reunion you're imposing your vision without allowing people to mod it the way they want (for exemple at first i would have been happy if i could use it with french exe but you never share anything nor work to make it possible in any way).

As ffnx is open and can be used with any exe lang of the game, anyone is free to use it the way they want.

I always tryied to make my own work as open as possible and make my pack builder to help people use it the way they want to use it (manual install, regular iro, dds iro and even reunion) even if it's not my way to use it at all.

The only good way to make a mod is to share it open so anyone can use it /mod it as it want to.

Dont compare your work to aali's one, aali provided a driver, usable with all exe lang, not a framework with imposed modification and locked to a spécific eavily modded exe

ffnx is the way to go, a driver with lots of modding option, compatible with all unmoded exe, and anyone can use it or mod it the way they want ... even you ^^ ... it's the logic evolution from aali driver.
 
One again you'll never understand that sharing work is the way to go to speed up devel and give a better result for end users.


I won't post in this thread anymore, nor support reunion in any way as no-one need me here.
But i'm not resentful and my pack builder will keep the reunion install part so reunion user can use it easily if they need it, i don't want to blame reunion users in any way about your poor devel choises.

Good luck with reunion, hope you can finish it and make it bug free one day so users can play it to the end without random crash.

Good luck to all reunion user, i wich you the best, as i said anyone must be free to use the mod they want.

[DLPB_]

I urge everyone to ignore these people and let the modding do the talking.  The very fact they feel the need to continually harrass this thread should tell you they know they've lost.

[orichalcon]

I urge everyone to ignore these people and let the modding do the talking.  The very fact they feel the need to continually harrass this thread should tell you they know they've lost.

why dont you just unblock everyone on PM's and do your fighting there?

people keep harassing you in this thread because they know you'll see it here and you've probably blocked all other means of communication

having people blocked on PMs and discord obviously isnt working, whats the difference if you argue in this thread or argue elsewhere?

i can assure everyone involved in this badmouthing of other mods and people... it doesnt make me, personally, want to use ANY of the involved parties mods

shut the frick up

[TrueOdin]

I am not like True Odin.  I never want to be.   

Don't use FFNx then. Be careful: you'll be infected if you do Cheers!

[sl1982]

Everyone let it go. This is getting stupid. You all dont like each other and thats fine. None of that is relevant to this thread. DLPB is free to write his mod in whatever way he sees fit. You are also free to disagree and write your own stuff that doesnt work with his. I suggest you go do that.

[sithlord48]

@DLPB
I checked the archive where is the link to the code? All I see is this bullshit fud about the GPL. There is no debate what you did was wrong. Stop trying to be the victim you messed up and when called out on it you attacked others for calling you out. You try to pretend your this lone hero modding all by yourself the truth is you can't even build a shader for your project. What have you done yourself wrote some text files for tools Lusky provided you?  You can't be bothered to learn any kind of modern languages and insist on using dead languages so you can't do much in terms modding. You could have had help but you insist on being a ass so no one wants to work with you and now you have people who actively dislike because of your actions.

[urgdfriend]

The admins said to drop it. And the reason it's not there yet is that the update containing it isn't out yet. Things take time. No competent modder or coder in their right mind would purposefully put out an unfinished update just because they are getting hassled by people. You people have been told to stop. So freaking stop.

I have been following a few of the mods here (reunion as well as FFNX) And Out of everything it really just seems to be petty attacks cause you don't like each other. Suck it up and quit harassing people, It's getting to the point that mods should start issuing warnings to you guys. This thread is about the Reunion. And what it's doing. Not about if its code is supposed to be open source or not. Who the hell cares? It's a passion project and its good at what it does, At this point I would rather crash after battle then ever install FFNX just because its team doesn't know when to stop being bullies.

[orichalcon]

and DLPB at least had the decency to make a new thread instead of invading a thread intended for information on a (quite popular, whether you like it or not) mod

and i'm not even a fan of the guy, i can be seen arguing with him many times in this thread (because the ACTUAL biggest problem with reunion is it needs some AMERICAN input on the AMERICAN translation, otherwise why have it? seems like all it does is change re words to er)

make a new thread and i'm sure it will be allowed until it gets out of hand

[urgdfriend]

and DLPB at least had the decency to make a new thread instead of invading a thread intended for information on a (quite popular, whether you like it or not) mod

and i'm not even a fan of the guy, i can be seen arguing with him many times in this thread (because the ACTUAL biggest problem with reunion is it needs some AMERICAN input on the AMERICAN translation, otherwise why have it? seems like all it does is change re words to er)

make a new thread and i'm sure it will be allowed until it gets out of hand

Eh Personally I feel like the translation is mostly fine, And to be honest European english is the more universally understood and correct english. American english is somewhat bastardized cause they wanted to be different.

[DLPB_]

The link to the code is in the help file - where the credits are.  The new link will also be in main credits on first post here.  But I'll also be making it crystal clear how much work is actually Aali's - because it seems to me he's being erased when the vast bulk is actually his work.

@urgdfriend

At this point, I'd much rather work on the code fork Luksy made and port to VS2019 but only one man is trying to help with that and my original plea for help led to the nonsense you see around you.

So the solution is to migrate the graphical side to FFNx which is actually done.  My gripe there is shader support is broken and the psx.post file I used in R06f really makes a good difference.  And it can't work with FFNx due to it using BGFX.  Which is a massive shame.

Basically - I'd work with someone with Luksy fork (with Maki fixes and my own code) if I could - but no one can or will help - so we're stuck with FFNx.

[orichalcon]

Eh Personally I feel like the translation is mostly fine, And to be honest European english is the more universally understood and correct english. American english is somewhat bastardized cause they wanted to be different.

none the less, its the country and version of english the game was made for, we (along with Japan) made square the money they needed to even make this game, and reunion takes american sounding characters and makes them into british sounding characters

...and it doesnt need to

why not maximize compatibility for everyone you can? (within reason)

[Tsuna]

Seems for the most part, the reason this new wave of drama happened has gone unknown by the general population of the forum. This was not random.

So for you guys who have gone uninformed, I will keep you in the loop.

DLPB put out his new version of the Reunion. Fantastic! Well done. Everyone loves an update.
The problem was... it came with a file named "The Reunion - About GPL License" which is 967 words focused purely on slandering TrueOdin and QuantumPencils names and basically claimed the laws he was forced to follow was stupid because he doesn't like them.

This happened after the original fight was over and settled. Therefor turning into the 1st move in this new chess game.

I have been asked by Moderators not to share the file so if you need the evidence of this please ask them directly. It is not my place to share it. Heck assuming it is still inside The Reunion you could go download it yourself.

I am remaining totally impartial right now despite previous events.
The purpose of this comment is only to spread awareness of exactly why what has happened, is happening for those who do not know.

[urgdfriend]

none the less, its the country and version of english the game was made for, we (along with Japan) made square the money they needed to even make this game, and reunion takes american sounding characters and makes them into british sounding characters

...and it doesnt need to

No, Thats not really the case at all.. The english release was for all countries that speak english, And out of ALL of them, Only America uses a different version of english. Don't even try that. Canada, Does not use american english, This is the version we got as well. This was the version Europe got for its english majority countries. The original release was a universal translation that happened to be done in america. Yes. They read different then they did in the original release. But everything was butchered anyway cause there were subjects that at the time required censorship. This translation is actually truer to the japanese version and not what people consider a "ted woolsey" translation that adds in american references to make up for japanese ones.

[orichalcon]

No, Thats not really the case at all.. The english release was for all countries that speak english, And out of ALL of them, Only America uses a different version of english. Don't even try that. Canada, Does not use american english, This is the version we got as well. This was the version Europe got for its english majority countries. The original release was a universal translation that happened to be done in america. Yes. They read different then they did in the original release. But everything was butchered anyway cause there were subjects that at the time required censorship. This translation is actually truer to the japanese version and not what people consider a "ted woolsey" translation that adds in american references to make up for japanese ones.

all i know is the original ps1 version had done american english dialogue pretty well (with the exception of the horrible typos and misspellings)

reunion replaces all the american idioms and dialect and replaces them with british ones, and the american translation option does not bring them back

this is irrefutable and if you have not spoken with people from america you have no say in this

[urgdfriend]

all i know is the original ps1 version had done american english dialogue pretty well (with the exception of the horrible typos and misspellings)

reunion replaces all the american idioms and dialect and replaces them with british ones, and the american translation option does not bring them back

this is irrefutable and if you have not spoken with people from america you have no say in this

I... Have, And this is not and never has been a retranslation of the english version. It's always been a more literal translation of the japanese script. And to be completely honest, I would rather an english translation that the rest of the world follows instead of one that just "ONE" Country follows. I have spoken with english speaking people from all around the world, Including America, And even my girlfriend who IS american agrees that it doesn't even freaking matter. If you have a problem that You translate the japanese script and make a american translation. Hell Reunions mod framework even freaking allows it.

[orichalcon]

And to be completely honest, I would rather an english translation that the rest of the world follows instead of one that just "ONE" Country follows.

you do have it, and its easily possible to have both without that much work, that's my point

And even my girlfriend who IS american agrees that it doesn't even freaking matter.

[urgdfriend]

you do have it, and its easily possible to have both without that much work, that's my point

That in itself is fair, But heres the thing that kinda pushes the idioms. DLPB and the other translator are NOT american. They would need someone from America to come in and work on the script. Which can be done after the current translation is done. The reason its not done now is because it adds even more development time, DLPB Wanted R07 with the completed translation to be done before FFVIIR was done.. 
@DLPB If I was any good at coding or that kind of work I would offer, But As I made aware on discord before the channel was pulled (speaking of which I don't have you on discord) The most I can do is relentlessly bash my face into the bugs until I find the exact point things fail..