[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994)

[Zikeagez]

Is the boss mentioned in your spoiler specific to Type B? I'm currently running A and do intend to hit up B after... but definitely missed the mark on some of those things if they were available in type A!

Wolfmeister: can be fought on the train mission think its the 3rd fight.
Solder 1st Class: on the steps leading upto upto hojo fight, possibly at junon as well where the highwind sat after the 'gas chamber' scene.
Iron Giant can be fought: in the northern crater

most optional 'endgame bosses' are listed within the 'intel officer' on the highwind.
exception is the

Spoiler: show

 'the calamity' which you require to do certain steps to unlock. I've listed those steps within the spreadsheet posted above

by the time your able to get the clue for that fight its already too late, however provides a really good excuse to replay so can solve the secrets in subsequent run

i will edit this post in a wee bit and list most.

[chaos447]

This does not work for me. It crashes when I select new game and tells me to go to

https://github.com/julianxhokaxhiu/FFNx/wiki/FAQ

I tried disabling every mod except for NT 2.0 and it still gives me this message.

[Sega Chief]

By golly, you are right. I turned off the other mods and it is working fine now. I can get the Speed Plus materia and HP Shout now. All five levels in the sub minigame are restored and I should be able to get the 1/35 soldier now. Thanks a lot man.

By the way, regarding Tifa's dialog with Don Corneo at Wutai, is it meant to be switched around in Types A and B? Just wanted to know.

Also, I remember that there is a battle between Tifa and Zangan as part of her Limit Break side quest in NT 1.5. Is it possible to put it in for NT 2.0?

If your flevel was vanilla for a period of time then you may see other issues arise or some stuff may have been missed as a result. It's not really possible to tell what the scale of the damage is though without knowing how long it was like that or what was done in-game during that time. This might be why the dialogue was flipped for your wutai sidequest for instance as the variable flag used to differentiate between Type A and Type B is a repurposed one that is used in vanilla to track one character's affinity for the date scene; in a vanilla flevel, this value would be getting altered in ways the NT flevel isn't really expecting. Hopefully nothing game-breaking occurs.

That sidequest + fight was retired, it won't be going into 2.0.

Thanks for the weapon tip!
I'm not too happy that basically the secret encounter is missable?
Also why Ultima Weapon does so little damage? I thought it was gonna be great then Cloud does 200 dmg per hit LOL am I missing something? I know it's supposed to do more DMG based on Cloud's HP% but same, very small damage even on full HP.
Also, is there any boss that can go through gospel + cosmo memory alternance? Is this just too much ?

I tried it out there against a fairly high defence enemy (Grand Horn):

If I use it on a Cloud that has no strength boosts at all (Lv.57, around 100 strength) then it dealt about 8-900 damage which wasn't a huge amount. It'll likely deal less against enemies with higher defence or if Cloud's level and/or strength is lower.

However, when I buff his strength stat with equipment and Materia to around 220, it started to hit for around 3-4000 damage against the same enemy instead.

As for Gospel and Cosmo being used together, I think Debarrier/Dispel effects should be able to get rid of the Peerless/Invincible status but not a lot of enemies use this from what I recall.

Is the boss mentioned in your spoiler specific to Type B? I'm currently running A and do intend to hit up B after... but definitely missed the mark on some of those things if they were available in type A!

That boss is locked to Type B.

This does not work for me. It crashes when I select new game and tells me to go to

https://github.com/julianxhokaxhiu/FFNx/wiki/FAQ

I tried disabling every mod except for NT 2.0 and it still gives me this message.

If that error appears it means you're using FFNX so first thing I'd try is running the game without mods enabled to test that it's working properly. If you're able to get to, say, the second screen of the game then we can rule out a setup problem with FF7 & FFNX.

[AhBeng2]

If your flevel was vanilla for a period of time then you may see other issues arise or some stuff may have been missed as a result. It's not really possible to tell what the scale of the damage is though without knowing how long it was like that or what was done in-game during that time. This might be why the dialogue was flipped for your wutai sidequest for instance as the variable flag used to differentiate between Type A and Type B is a repurposed one that is used in vanilla to track one character's affinity for the date scene; in a vanilla flevel, this value would be getting altered in ways the NT flevel isn't really expecting. Hopefully nothing game-breaking occurs.

That sidequest + fight was retired, it won't be going into 2.0.

All good mate. This mod is fantastic and I will be replaying it several times anyway. So even if I did miss out anything, its not a big deal. Thanks a lot again man.

Btw, do you still accept donations via paypal?

[Perfect Zell]

I discovered that Yuffie shows as an NPC on the Chocobo ranch, if you go there before she has joined the party. I was was playing on Type B. Is this intended behavior? Shouldn't she only show up after you have recruited her?

[Zikeagez]

So playing through Type A I seem to have somehow missed the Long Range materia. Not sure how I did that but here I am!

The documentation for its location specifies "If missed, place somewhere." Where is this somewhere? haha

[Sega Chief]

All good mate. This mod is fantastic and I will be replaying it several times anyway. So even if I did miss out anything, its not a big deal. Thanks a lot again man.

Btw, do you still accept donations via paypal?

Yeah, there's a donations link on the first post.

I discovered that Yuffie shows as an NPC on the Chocobo ranch, if you go there before she has joined the party. I was was playing on Type B. Is this intended behavior? Shouldn't she only show up after you have recruited her?

Did you head down there before going into Kalm and concluding the events there? I'll update the conditions there.

So playing through Type A I seem to have somehow missed the Long Range materia. Not sure how I did that but here I am!

The documentation for its location specifies "If missed, place somewhere." Where is this somewhere? haha

The other Long Range is a bit trickier to get; when you've turned in all 3 items to the Kalm Traveller (desert rose from ruby weapon, earth harp from emerald weapon, and the Guidebook) you get an extra bonus of 3 Materia; one of which is Long Range.

[Perfect Zell]

Did you head down there before going into Kalm and concluding the events there? I'll update the conditions there.

Yes. I went to the ranch immediately.

[AhBeng2]

Yeah, there's a donations link on the first post.

Cool. I will send over a donation soon.

Btw, I tried triggering the battle with the Silver Chocobo at the Great Glacier by feeding it the Zeio nut but the game crashes. This seems to happen (to me at least) only in ver. 2.0993 even without other mods active. I removed ver. 2.0993 and tried again with ver. 2.0991 (with and without other mods active) and there is no problem. I could enter the battle with Chokhmabo in ver. 2.0991.

[EliteOne]

I went with around the same value for a lot of the Disc 3 bosses. I don't see a reason not to tune this back up though so will do that on the next patch and adjust Emerald Weapon's AP as well.

1million HP I don't think would be a good idea for NT either as it's not as easy to land the same kind of numbers that you can in vanilla; Emerald had this amount in vanilla and the only practical way to beat it in a timely fashion was to use KOTR or some other consecutive hit attack that could land max damage per hit

okay, i understand you're going to adjust Ruby weapon's AP back, in your next version.


and obviously you said 1 million HP was too high, but what about just making HP higher, for example to 150000 ?

or just making HP higher to 150000, on Hard mode, while leaving it the same on Regular mode ?

i'm only talking about superbosses, like Diamond/Ultima/Emerald weapon.


this would be much appreciated.

[wdx]

and obviously you said 1 million HP was too high, but what about just making HP higher, for example to 150000 ?
or just making HP higher to 150000, on Hard mode, while leaving it the same on Regular mode ?
i'm only talking about superbosses, like Diamond/Ultima/Emerald weapon.
this would be much appreciated.

bear in mind lvl7 run (with no exp option) for hp values could become an issue. Its possible for you to adjust the HP's of the said superbosses yourself, via the likes of black chocobo (would using that application do it in real time at the start of fights) but with ATB wait 1 turn would be all it would take. and very easy to do.

[EliteOne]

Its possible for you to adjust the HP's of the said superbosses yourself, via the likes of black chocobo (would using that application do it in real time at the start of fights) but with ATB wait 1 turn would be all it would take. and very easy to do.

i don't understand how to do that.

do you know how to edit superboss HP permanently ??


i would like to set the superboss, in Shinra mansion, who uses counters, to 150000 HP and 50000 AP gained.

also, i would like to set Ultima/Emerald/Ruby weapon, to 150000 HP and 50000 AP gained.


if it only makes sense to do this on regular mode, then that's fine.

[Sega Chief]

Yes. I went to the ranch immediately.

I've added conditions there so it'll be sorted as of the next patch, thanks for letting me know.

Cool. I will send over a donation soon.

Btw, I tried triggering the battle with the Silver Chocobo at the Great Glacier by feeding it the Zeio nut but the game crashes. This seems to happen (to me at least) only in ver. 2.0993 even without other mods active. I removed ver. 2.0993 and tried again with ver. 2.0991 (with and without other mods active) and there is no problem. I could enter the battle with Chokhmabo in ver. 2.0991.

Thanks for the donation, much appreciated.

The model files appear to be missing for this enemy as it was using the wrong model files previously; I'll be updating the mod later to add the missing files along with some other things.

okay, i understand you're going to adjust Ruby weapon's AP back, in your next version.


and obviously you said 1 million HP was too high, but what about just making HP higher, for example to 150000 ?

or just making HP higher to 150000, on Hard mode, while leaving it the same on Regular mode ?

i'm only talking about superbosses, like Diamond/Ultima/Emerald weapon.


this would be much appreciated.

I'm not sure why you want the HP set to 150,000 for Ruby and Emerald when before you were asking for an increase to 1million; they currently both have 165,000 so this would decrease their HP rather than increase it. As for Ultimate Weapon, this boss is fought multiple times so increasing its HP would be a bad idea as it would exponentially increase the amount of time needed to trigger the final battle at Cosmo Canyon.

I've increased Ruby Weapon's EXP/Gil/AP to match Emerald Weapon; 50,000 for each where previously Ruby gave 45,000 EXP/Gil and only 4500 AP. I think Emerald was intended to have 5000AP rather than 50,000AP so that it followed the pattern of Exp/Gil/AP given by the other Weapon bosses but given that this is an optional super-boss I think it's maybe better that they have the increased AP.

As for the secret boss in Shinra Mansion, the reason it has those Exp/Gil/AP values is because it matches what it has from the game it came from. The amount of AP it gives is decidedly useless here, but there's plenty of ways to gain AP elsewhere; the North Crater's left-up path has two enemies that were great for AP farming in the vanilla game which have been buffed/modified in NT to better suit this purpose. Magic Pot now takes Ethers instead of Elixirs so they're more farmable (some mods disable the W-Item glitch so I felt this was a good idea to change the item to something more readily available) and the Movers enemy, while rare, has had the AP they give buffed up enormously (4800 AP per encounter; 14,400 AP if a Triple weapon/armour is used).

[EliteOne]

I'm not sure why you want the HP set to 150,000 for Ruby and Emerald when before you were asking for an increase to 1million; they currently both have 165,000 so this would decrease their HP rather than increase it.

see below.

[AhBeng2]

Thanks for the donation, much appreciated.

The model files appear to be missing for this enemy as it was using the wrong model files previously; I'll be updating the mod later to add the missing files along with some other things.

No worries. It is just a token of appreciation for this wonderful mod.

I have a question about the conversation between Cloud and Aeris when the party revisits the Forgotten City. Bugenhagen informs the party that the White Materia is needed to summon Holy. Cloud then turns to Aeris and laments albeit mistakenly that Holy failed to appear because they did not have the White Materia. I can understand that Cloud is ignorant of the fact that the White Materia was all along in Aeris' possession. But, was Aeris herself unaware that she had the White Materia? Or she knew she had it but didn't know its purpose prior to Bugenhagen's revelation to the party at the Forgotten City? It seems rather odd that she did not rebuke Cloud for his incorrect deduction. As a side note, her dialog "A-ha. See, I told you I'd take care of it." at the end is simply hilarious and is totally in line with her goofy character. Good job.

By the way, at the Northern Crater, before Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Sephiroth, he says something along the lines "I'm sorry. Especially to you, Tifa. You have been so good to me. Maybe one day you'll meet the real Cloud." In my opinion, that dialog should be directed to Aeris as well (if she is in the party) since she did previously express her desire to meet the real Cloud. Also, I thought that akin to Tifa, she would try (in futility nonetheless) to persuade Cloud not to hand over the Black Materia to Sephiroth (due to her Cetra lineage) instead of remaining silent throughout.       

One part of the original story that was left unexplained is how did Tifa's mind survive after being drenched by the lifestream when Cloud got lost under similar circumstances? It was speculated that Aeris (after her death) actually guided Tifa in the lifestream; preventing her from getting lost. So, I think that it will be instructive if Aeris plays a more active role (alongside Tifa) in restoring Cloud's memories in the NT mod since she lives (or given the chance to live rather).

Maybe this is something that you can consider should you update the mod and make drastic changes to the story in the future. Cheers.

[Sega Chief]

No worries. It is just a token of appreciation for this wonderful mod.

I have a question about the conversation between Cloud and Aeris when the party revisits the Forgotten City. Bugenhagen informs the party that the White Materia is needed to summon Holy. Cloud then turns to Aeris and laments albeit mistakenly that Holy failed to appear because they did not have the White Materia. I can understand that Cloud is ignorant of the fact that the White Materia was all along in Aeris' possession. But, was Aeris herself unaware that she had the White Materia? Or she knew she had it but didn't know its purpose prior to Bugenhagen's revelation to the party at the Forgotten City? It seems rather odd that she did not rebuke Cloud for his incorrect deduction. As a side note, her dialog "A-ha. See, I told you I'd take care of it." at the end is simply hilarious and is totally in line with her goofy character. Good job.

By the way, at the Northern Crater, before Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Sephiroth, he says something along the lines "I'm sorry. Especially to you, Tifa. You have been so good to me. Maybe one day you'll meet the real Cloud." In my opinion, that dialog should be directed to Aeris as well (if she is in the party) since she did previously express her desire to meet the real Cloud. Also, I thought that akin to Tifa, she would try (in futility nonetheless) to persuade Cloud not to hand over the Black Materia to Sephiroth (due to her Cetra lineage) instead of remaining silent throughout.       

One part of the original story that was left unexplained is how did Tifa's mind survive after being drenched by the lifestream when Cloud got lost under similar circumstances? It was speculated that Aeris (after her death) actually guided Tifa in the lifestream; preventing her from getting lost. So, I think that it will be instructive if Aeris plays a more active role (alongside Tifa) in restoring Cloud's memories in the NT mod since she lives (or given the chance to live rather).

Maybe this is something that you can consider should you update the mod and make drastic changes to the story in the future. Cheers.

On the Holy Materia: Based on just what's in the original game's dialogue, I think it's up for debate if Aeris actually knows what that Materia is or rather what it specifically does. When you first meet her she says that she has a 'useless' Materia that she keeps as a memento from her mother; you can read that a few ways as either she genuinely doesn't know what it does, she's keeping it a secret in case people try to take it, or that it's tongue in cheek and she doesn't believe there'll ever be a need to call for Holy and it's therefore 'useless' in that sense.

What clinches it for me personally is when Cloud 'talks' to her in that dream after the Temple of the Ancients and she doesn't seem 100% sure where she's going or what the end result will be. The game up to that point has also pointed out a few times that Aeris isn't as connected to the Planet as prior Ancients were and she usually has trouble communicating with it clearly.

The OG dialogue is (and bear in mind there's minor differences between PSX and PC release in case this isn't 1:1 what's said on PSX):

Spoiler: show

{AERIS}
“The secret is just up here.”

{AERIS}
“At least it should be.
   …I feel it.
   It feels like I'm being led by something.”

So you could read that as not being aware what the plan will be, which would be very unusual if you were aware that you had a Materia that could call forth something like Holy. She's praying when the player finds her again, so an argument could be made that she is aware of Holy at that point but there's no way to really know for sure based on in-game text.

On the Black Materia handover: In the original builds, Aeris' script group was a copy of another character in most instances and I think I specifically tried to use ones where the character was most inactive (probably Vincent) to cut down on the amount of work needed and avoid adding too much story-wise or altering existing scenes (she was relegated to hanging out with Yuffie and suffering from air-sickness to avoid Highwind scenes; it should still be that way in the 1.5 build I think). I went back and made her more active in the 2.0 build on request, but I guess that scene at the Black Materia hand over wasn't revisited. You're right in that she probably should react in some way so I'll add it to my notes.

On the Lifestream: I don't know actually why Tifa emerges with her mind intact from the Lifestream, maybe it's to do with prolonged exposure? Perhaps in the extended stuff like the ultimania they offer an explanation but I try to go with what's in-game from the original whenever I can. I also think of that section as an important part of their character development so I won't be tampering with it to add Aeris in or stuff like that. I already get enough flak as it is for ruining the story forever and missing the whole point of the plot. It also makes it harder to do low level runs.

[EliteOne]

I already get enough flak as it is for ruining the story forever and missing the whole point of the plot. It also makes it harder to do low level runs.

sorry, i apologize.

i have disabilities, so there's difficulty typing correct numbers.

my request was supposed to be Diamond weapon at 165,000 HP, but Emerald/Ruby weapon at 365,000 HP.

i meant to type a " 3 " ,but typed a " 1 " by accident.


in regards to superboss in Shinra mansion, who uses counters, i think that Cloud's Ultima weapon critical hit should be set to 1/3 of the Masamune, and the Masamune critical hit should be set to 1/2, of where it is now.

my reason is that when you fight superboss in Shinra mansion, using the Masamune, its too easy, but too hard without it.


i would really appreciate these changes.

[wdx]

my reason is that when you fight superboss in Shinra mansion, using the Masamune, its too easy, but too hard without it.

if finding a particular boss too hard, maybe strategise and rearrange materia to help provide protection vs elements that a particular boss uses. alongside working out the weaknesses. bear in mind not all weakness's are 'weakness' as if an enemy is weak to an element and can absorb that dmg, it would simply absorb double the amount   some other bosses may not be weak to the likes of an element however that can do standard dmg, good example is

Spoiler: show

 gravity which works on several bosses  (not with the boss your speaking of thou)

stat/element boosting armour/assessories can make a fight a whole lot easier if using 'correctly'.

another thing to bear in mind the game specifically tells you about is counters, counters can't be countered. physical counters and magical counters vary you can assess which attacks are which element via a few tests to come up with strategies which work. specifically on the boss your speaking of a lot of its counters are based around level being devisable without remainder,

eg lvl4 holy will only hit party members at level 8/12/16/20..... so leveling a character to something not divisable by a lvl based attack would avoid a fair bit and can also make things easier for you. 

an immense part of the fun from this mod for me, was to work out viable strats enabling a 100% run at lowest possible level, whilst having solutions to morph all bosses (inclusive of those which hp too high to sense) if a particular materia/weapon/armour setup doesnt work something else will

if you nip onto discord and pm me (wdx) I can talk you through how to alter any enemy that your fighting hp level.  much higher HP's usually just drag's on battles, not necessary making them harder but more akin to repeatition. Use X use Y if party member dead revive, rinse repeat.

ps totally agree the Masamune is Very OP.

[AhBeng2]

On the Holy Materia: Based on just what's in the original game's dialogue, I think it's up for debate if Aeris actually knows what that Materia is or rather what it specifically does. When you first meet her she says that she has a 'useless' Materia that she keeps as a memento from her mother; you can read that a few ways as either she genuinely doesn't know what it does, she's keeping it a secret in case people try to take it, or that it's tongue in cheek and she doesn't believe there'll ever be a need to call for Holy and it's therefore 'useless' in that sense.

What clinches it for me personally is when Cloud 'talks' to her in that dream after the Temple of the Ancients and she doesn't seem 100% sure where she's going or what the end result will be. The game up to that point has also pointed out a few times that Aeris isn't as connected to the Planet as prior Ancients were and she usually has trouble communicating with it clearly.

The OG dialogue is (and bear in mind there's minor differences between PSX and PC release in case this isn't 1:1 what's said on PSX):

Spoiler: show

{AERIS}
“The secret is just up here.”

{AERIS}
“At least it should be.
   …I feel it.
   It feels like I'm being led by something.”

So you could read that as not being aware what the plan will be, which would be very unusual if you were aware that you had a Materia that could call forth something like Holy. She's praying when the player finds her again, so an argument could be made that she is aware of Holy at that point but there's no way to really know for sure based on in-game text.

I am not familiar with the PC version of the OG dialogue (I bought the steam version to play this mod) but I can verify that in the PSX version, whilst not identical, the dialogue is very similar. Therefore, it has always been my contention that Aeris was somewhat doubtful of her plan to use Holy and its efficacy in stopping Sephiroth. She was also oblivious to the fact that Sephiroth had the power to contain Holy and never had the intention to sacrifice herself. I was curious about your interpretation of her dialogue and why you wrote her lines the way you did. It is interesting to learn that we are on the same page on this matter because many people seem to believe that Aeris was in control all along, she was “aware” that she was going to die and willingly sacrificed herself to save the planet.

On the Black Materia handover: In the original builds, Aeris' script group was a copy of another character in most instances and I think I specifically tried to use ones where the character was most inactive (probably Vincent) to cut down on the amount of work needed and avoid adding too much story-wise or altering existing scenes (she was relegated to hanging out with Yuffie and suffering from air-sickness to avoid Highwind scenes; it should still be that way in the 1.5 build I think). I went back and made her more active in the 2.0 build on request, but I guess that scene at the Black Materia hand over wasn't revisited. You're right in that she probably should react in some way so I'll add it to my notes.

That’s great. Hopefully, any additional dialogue on Aeris’ part in future versions will solidify the overall plot.

On the Lifestream: I don't know actually why Tifa emerges with her mind intact from the Lifestream, maybe it's to do with prolonged exposure? Perhaps in the extended stuff like the ultimania they offer an explanation but I try to go with what's in-game from the original whenever I can. I also think of that section as an important part of their character development so I won't be tampering with it to add Aeris in or stuff like that. I already get enough flak as it is for ruining the story forever and missing the whole point of the plot. It also makes it harder to do low level runs.

Yeah, I don’t think it was ever explained. I never paid any attention to the compilation and supplementary material, so I may be mistaken. I concur that the lifestream sequence is important character development especially for Cloud and Tifa; although in my humble opinion, Aeris’ addition will not dilute that in any way. In fact, by playing a more active role, it enhances her character development since she will be directly meeting the real Cloud (after all that was what she expressed in the Gold Saucer date sequence). But, this is just my view and I don’t think it is in anyway consequential to the overall plot. 

However, I strongly disagree with the view that you have missed the point of the OG by making changes to the story. I am hoping that you don’t take that view seriously because the changes in Type B were very good and I wished that the changes extended beyond the Midgar portion of the story.

[demos1085]

"One part of the original story that was left unexplained is how did Tifa's mind survive after being drenched by the lifestream when Cloud got lost under similar circumstances? It was speculated that Aeris (after her death) actually guided Tifa in the lifestream; preventing her from getting lost. So, I think that it will be instructive if Aeris plays a more active role (alongside Tifa) in restoring Cloud's memories in the NT mod since she lives (or given the chance to live rather)."

Hi there everyone.

I was lurking around seeing what is new with the mod and AhBeng2' s suggestion made me remember of a post I made here sometime ago, I agreed Tifa and Aerith could work together to repair Cloud's mind, here is how I proposed it could be done:

The “Mental recovery” of Cloud in Mideel, as it happens in the original history this event seems a little too convenient, almost a “Deux Ex Machina”, Tifa has no idea of how to help Cloud recover from his Mako poisoning (in fact nobody in the party has any idea about how to help Cloud), Weapon attacks, the earth cracks open and totally by accident both Cloud and Tifa fall into pure life stream, (Something that up to this point in the history has been presented to be something very bad, leading to dead or permanent insanity) and without any explanation Tifa resist all the negative effects of the life stream, somehow enters Cloud’s mind and helps him put back his memories and personality back together.

I think Aerith could help here, instead of making it a happy accident, it could be an intentional calculated risk, when the party visit Cloud and Tifa in Mideel the second time, (After completing the Corel Train Mission) Aerith would tell Tifa that when she visited the City of the Ancients by herself (Before she were attacked by Sephiroth), she listened the thoughts and memories left behind by the Cetra, and she came to understand the nature of the life stream a little better, due to this knowledge she thinks that maybe it could be possible to enter Cloud’s mind and repair it if the three of them enter the life stream together (Aerith because she could control the life stream to a degree, Cloud because she is the one in need of help, and Tifa because she was present during the Nibelheim incident and has the “Real memories” of that event, memories that are the key to repair Cloud´s persona), at this point Tifa will ask Aerith why she didn’t tell her this sooner, an Aerith will admit that is because she is really afraid of trying, as it’s is a very dangerous method and there is no way to know if it will actually work, if she is unable to keep the life stream in control the three of them will become permanently insane with Mako poisoning, but after searching her feelings she came to the conclusion that she has to try, because she cares too much for Cloud and for Tifa, to just let Cloud remain an empty husk for the rest of his life, Tifa thanks Aerith for being willing to do this for her friends, and together the three, voluntarily submerge themselves in a naturally occurring “Mako Hot spring” in Mideel.

The rest of the event plays out pretty much the same, Tifa manages to repair Cloud s memories and the three friends managed to get out of the Mako bath exhausted but alive and well. The only change to the original progression of the story is that the town of Mideel won´t be destroyed by an earthquake, but I don´t think that is too drastic of a change.

  I am not familiar with the PC version of the OG dialogue (I bought the steam version to play this mod) but I can verify that in the PSX version, whilst not identical, the dialogue is very similar. Therefore, it has always been my contention that Aeris was somewhat doubtful of her plan to use Holy and its efficacy in stopping Sephiroth. She was also oblivious to the fact that Sephiroth had the power to contain Holy and never had the intention to sacrifice herself. I was curious about your interpretation of her dialogue and why you wrote her lines the way you did. It is interesting to learn that we are on the same page on this matter because many people seem to believe that Aeris was in control all along, she was “aware” that she was going to die and willingly sacrificed herself to save the planet.

I agreed, Aerith was not some all knowing oracle, I think she was just trying to follow the instructions of her ancestors, to the best of her understanding, in fact, I think a good way to develop her character arc, would be she getting sad and distant after nearly getting killed by Sephiroth, not just because the physical pain of her injury but because her faith would be shaken, she followed the wishes of her ancestors, prayed with all her hearth, hoping for a miracle, and all she got for her troubles was a sword to the back, she would feel like she failed to fulfill her duty as a Cetra, or like her ancestors had forsaken her, so she would be understandably depressed, but after viewing the "video" in the waterfall of the City of Ancients, she would understand that her prayers were heard and that there is still hope for everyone, so she would recover her confidence and usual cheerful character.

Well that is it, I just wanted to share my ideas with AhBeng2, since we both seem to have a similar opinion about those plot points.

[EliteOne]

I can talk you through how to alter any enemy that your fighting hp level.

i would highly prefer that Sega Chief complete some of my suggestions.


the objection was that 1 million HP was too much, but there's no reply as to why 365000 HP couldn't be done.

also, there's no reply as to why Regular mode couldn't keep the current 165000 HP, while Hard mode is changed to 365000 HP.

[AhBeng2]

Hi there everyone.

I was lurking around seeing what is new with the mod and AhBeng2' s suggestion made me remember of a post I made here sometime ago, I agreed Tifa and Aerith could work together to repair Cloud's mind, here is how I proposed it could be done:

The “Mental recovery” of Cloud in Mideel, as it happens in the original history this event seems a little too convenient, almost a “Deux Ex Machina”, Tifa has no idea of how to help Cloud recover from his Mako poisoning (in fact nobody in the party has any idea about how to help Cloud), Weapon attacks, the earth cracks open and totally by accident both Cloud and Tifa fall into pure life stream, (Something that up to this point in the history has been presented to be something very bad, leading to dead or permanent insanity) and without any explanation Tifa resist all the negative effects of the life stream, somehow enters Cloud’s mind and helps him put back his memories and personality back together.

I think Aerith could help here, instead of making it a happy accident, it could be an intentional calculated risk, when the party visit Cloud and Tifa in Mideel the second time, (After completing the Corel Train Mission) Aerith would tell Tifa that when she visited the City of the Ancients by herself (Before she were attacked by Sephiroth), she listened the thoughts and memories left behind by the Cetra, and she came to understand the nature of the life stream a little better, due to this knowledge she thinks that maybe it could be possible to enter Cloud’s mind and repair it if the three of them enter the life stream together (Aerith because she could control the life stream to a degree, Cloud because she is the one in need of help, and Tifa because she was present during the Nibelheim incident and has the “Real memories” of that event, memories that are the key to repair Cloud´s persona), at this point Tifa will ask Aerith why she didn’t tell her this sooner, an Aerith will admit that is because she is really afraid of trying, as it’s is a very dangerous method and there is no way to know if it will actually work, if she is unable to keep the life stream in control the three of them will become permanently insane with Mako poisoning, but after searching her feelings she came to the conclusion that she has to try, because she cares too much for Cloud and for Tifa, to just let Cloud remain an empty husk for the rest of his life, Tifa thanks Aerith for being willing to do this for her friends, and together the three, voluntarily submerge themselves in a naturally occurring “Mako Hot spring” in Mideel.

The rest of the event plays out pretty much the same, Tifa manages to repair Cloud s memories and the three friends managed to get out of the Mako bath exhausted but alive and well. The only change to the original progression of the story is that the town of Mideel won´t be destroyed by an earthquake, but I don´t think that is too drastic of a change.

I agreed, Aerith was not some all knowing oracle, I think she was just trying to follow the instructions of her ancestors, to the best of her understanding, in fact, I think a good way to develop her character arc, would be she getting sad and distant after nearly getting killed by Sephiroth, not just because the physical pain of her injury but because her faith would be shaken, she followed the wishes of her ancestors, prayed with all her hearth, hoping for a miracle, and all she got for her troubles was a sword to the back, she would feel like she failed to fulfill her duty as a Cetra, or like her ancestors had forsaken her, so she would be understandably depressed, but after viewing the "video" in the waterfall of the City of Ancients, she would understand that her prayers were heard and that there is still hope for everyone, so she would recover her confidence and usual cheerful character.

Well that is it, I just wanted to share my ideas with AhBeng2, since we both seem to have a similar opinion about those plot points.

Brilliant. I could not have articulated this any better myself. One minor change I would make is to not have the three of them voluntarily submerge themselves in the lifestream. Instead, I prefer to have them thrown into the lifestream during the earthquake against their will and Aeris would be forced to reveal the knowledge she gleaned from the Forgotten City. This could be done when the lifestream erupts at Mideel (after the party defeats Ultimate Weapon). Cid beckons the party to return to the airship while Aeris insists on not abandoning Cloud and Tifa. She runs towards the clinic without sparing a thought for her own safety (in line with her impulsive character) and consequently, falls into the lifestream along with Cloud and Tifa. 

In this scenario, Mideel still gets destroyed and the rest of the events play out in an identical fashion. Meanwhile, Aeris regains some of her confidence as a Cetra; enabling her to be willing to share (albeit still somewhat skeptical) her original plan of praying for Holy when the party later revisits Bugenhagen at Cosmo Canyon. In my opinion, this would perfectly explain why she remained mum about her plan and Holy up to that point. And when she subsequently watches the “video” at the Forgotten City, she realises that her ancestors did not forsake her and her efforts were not in vain. As a result, her confidence is fully restored and she embraces her identity as a Cetra; thereby completing her character arc. As a side note, I have no qualms with her retaining her usual cheerful self throughout her identity “crisis” because I always thought that being goofy and cheerful was her way of coping with grief all along. 

One issue with your suggestion though is (not sure whether you are aware or not) that this directly clashes with the optional conversation between Aeris and Cloud at the Chocobo Ranch in Disc 3. There, she says that she doesn’t want to be a Cetra because it entails putting the interests of the planet above all else and that she just wants to lead a normal life. She even asks Cloud whether she is being selfish for harbouring such thoughts. That conversation ought to be removed if your suggestions are actually taken on board. 

[demos1085]

I prefer to have them thrown into the lifestream during the earthquake against their will and Aeris would be forced to reveal the knowledge she gleaned from the Forgotten City

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I like your idea a lot, it would make Aerith's character feel more real, after all, the prospect of spending the rest of your life disconnected from reality, with the voices of thousands of dead souls screaming at you, all at the same time, constantly bombarding your mind with a incompressible mismatch of their memories, regrets and fears, its probably one of the most terrifying things anyone could imagine, it will be quite realistic for Aerith, to be way too scared of the possibility of failing, to even tell Tifa the true about Cloud's condition, but at the same time feel a desperate need to help her friends, in the mist of that moral dilemma, watching Tifa and Cloud fall into the lifestream during the earthquake in Mideel, knowing that they will be forever lost if she does not act immediately, would be the "push" she need to overcome her fear and face the danger of the lifestream.

One issue with your suggestion though is (not sure whether you are aware or not) that this directly clashes with the optional conversation between Aeris and Cloud at the Chocobo Ranch in Disc 3. There, she says that she doesn’t want to be a Cetra because it entails putting the interests of the planet above all else and that she just wants to lead a normal life. She even asks Cloud whether she is being selfish for harboring such thoughts. That conversation ought to be removed if your suggestions are actually taken on board. 

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I was not aware of this optional conversation, thanks for telling me about it, I like it a lot and think it is perfectly in character for Aerith, but I don't think it clashes with my suggestions, in fact, I think it rounds up Aerith's character arc even more, the way I see it, her arc is not about accepting her fate as a Cetra at the cost of abandoning her "human" life, her arc is that she was always a Cetra and she must learn to accept that part of herself, (according to Elmyra's flashback she used to vehemently deny having any powers when she was a child) but that does not mean she has to forsake all the other parts of her personality, she could achieve a balance in which she uses her heritage for the good of the planet, but still lives her own life in search for her own happiness, and to do that, she must rely on the support of her friends, specially Cloud and Tifa.

Achieving a healthy balance between fulfilling your responsibilities and pursuing your passions and dreams is a quite realistic character arc, and a very relatable one in my opinion.

[AhBeng2]

I like your idea a lot, it would make Aerith's character feel more real, after all, the prospect of spending the rest of your life disconnected from reality, with the voices of thousands of dead souls screaming at you, all at the same time, constantly bombarding your mind with a incompressible mismatch of their memories, regrets and fears, its probably one of the most terrifying things anyone could imagine, it will be quite realistic for Aerith, to be way too scared of the possibility of failing, to even tell Tifa the true about Cloud's condition, but at the same time feel a desperate need to help her friends, in the mist of that moral dilemma, watching Tifa and Cloud fall into the lifestream during the earthquake in Mideel, knowing that they will be forever lost if she does not act immediately, would be the "push" she need to overcome her fear and face the danger of the lifestream.

Yeah, that was exactly what I was thinking. Aeris has always come across to me as an impulsive individual and her actions were always reactionary. She never appeared as someone who thinks things through before taking action but her heart is always in the right place. For example, she rushed towards Don Corneo’s mansion to rescue Tifa when she discovered that the latter was there without considering the possible consequences of her hasty decision. It was Cloud who stopped her and reminded her that it would be extremely unwise for being for so rash. Her instinct to immediately save Tifa despite barely knowing the latter at the expense of her own safety is testament to her selflessness and altruism.

Thus, I believe that if she intended to inform Tifa about her knowledge of the lifestream and how it could be harnessed to help Cloud, she would have done it the moment the party found him in his comatose state in Mideel. It doesn’t seem in line with her character to wait until much later to voluntarily divulge that information. Furthermore, it is imperative to note that at that point, she would be at arguably the lowest point of her confidence/faith in being a Cetra. After all, she just tried to pray for Holy, believed (mistakenly though) that she failed miserably and got “killed” in the process. The thought of using her powers again while running the risk of endangering both her and her friends’ lives would be reprehensible to her at that point.

Instead, if she was forced into a corner with extremely high stakes (such as falling into the lifestream with Cloud and Tifa), she would have no choice but to reveal that information regardless of how incredulous she was. The realisation that her continued silence under that circumstance would only spell their doom is a strong enough motivation for her to take the risk of using her Cetra knowledge to navigate the lifestream and help Cloud and Tifa. As you correctly noted, it would make Aeris’ character more real and also, the whole plot more credible.

I was not aware of this optional conversation, thanks for telling me about it, I like it a lot and think it is perfectly in character for Aerith, but I don't think it clashes with my suggestions, in fact, I think it rounds up Aerith's character arc even more, the way I see it, her arc is not about accepting her fate as a Cetra at the cost of abandoning her "human" life, her arc is that she was always a Cetra and she must learn to accept that part of herself, (according to Elmyra's flashback she used to vehemently deny having any powers when she was a child) but that does not mean she has to forsake all the other parts of her personality, she could achieve a balance in which she uses her heritage for the good of the planet, but still lives her own life in search for her own happiness, and to do that, she must rely on the support of her friends, specially Cloud and Tifa.

Achieving a healthy balance between fulfilling your responsibilities and pursuing your passions and dreams is a quite realistic character arc, and a very relatable one in my opinion.

A very interesting take on that conversation. I agree that Aeris’ character arc should not be about accepting her fate as a Cetra at the cost of her own well-being and life. However, her character arc was such in the OG because the developers wanted to use her as a conduit to deliver the theme of loss and death. Since NT 2.0 alters her fate drastically, it is instructive to explore the other themes of OG such as identity and your approach is perfect. I really like your interpretation a lot but I believe that the conversation will still need to be tweaked to clearly convey that message. I opine that her dialogue (as it currently is) is too dissonant with what you are suggesting here. Here is Aeris’ dialogue at the Chocobo Ranch in Disc 3:

Spoiler: show

“I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about why I came on this journey. I was trying really hard to figure out what a Cetra is supposed to be like. And, I don’t know, to copy that. But you know what? I don’t WANT to be like a Cetra. It’s all about travelling and putting everything else before yourself. You know, I used to think I’d stop hearing the Planet as I grew up. Actually, I wished that I would. I just wanted to live a normal life. Cloud, Is that a terrible thing to say?”

If the player chooses the option of advising her to just be herself and not force to be someone she is not, she does her signature giggle “Hehe” (typical Aeris; kudos to Sega Chief) and thanks Cloud for supporting her.

On the other hand, if the player tells her to ask the Planet instead, she proceeds to tease Cloud for still being a dunce and not able to “read between the lines”. She thanks Cloud anyway for his support.

I am interested to know whether you think her dialogue needs to be amended or not to better align with your interpretation of Aeris’ identity conflict.

[Sega Chief]

sorry, i apologize.

i have disabilities, so there's difficulty typing correct numbers.

my request was supposed to be Diamond weapon at 165,000 HP, but Emerald/Ruby weapon at 365,000 HP.

i meant to type a " 3 " ,but typed a " 1 " by accident.


in regards to superboss in Shinra mansion, who uses counters, i think that Cloud's Ultima weapon critical hit should be set to 1/3 of the Masamune, and the Masamune critical hit should be set to 1/2, of where it is now.

my reason is that when you fight superboss in Shinra mansion, using the Masamune, its too easy, but too hard without it.


i would really appreciate these changes.

I'm not increasing their HP to 365,000, and I don't want to rebalance ultimate weapons specifically for one secret boss with that won't be encountered by a lot of players. Ultimate Weapons could stand to be retuned though just in general.

ps totally agree the Masamune is Very OP.

Yeah I think Masamune was mentioned a few times as being too much, will prob revise at some point. Either removing the auto-crit property or base power adjustment.

i would highly prefer that Sega Chief complete some of my suggestions.


the objection was that 1 million HP was too much, but there's no reply as to why 365000 HP couldn't be done.

also, there's no reply as to why Regular mode couldn't keep the current 165000 HP, while Hard mode is changed to 365000 HP.

I answered my stance on this when you initially raised the request of boosting their HP; I don't think increasing HP is the best way to achieve harder difficulty. I won't be implementing increased HP for either normal mode or hard mode. This doesn't just cover 1million HP, this also covers 365,000HP, 465,000HP, 166,000HP, or whatever other number that happens to be above their current HP, on either mode.