Author Topic: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists  (Read 27464 times)

Mayo Master

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #25 on: 2014-08-04 02:11:58 »
Alright, regarding the textures for 5min_1...
The calendar texture minus illustration is here, and is already appropriately sized.
The UV of the magazine is here. Now, there's a catch: the UV unwrap spans across both the front and the back of the cover (i.e. the horizontal centre would correspond to the book spine, but the magazine is designed without much of a spine). Sine only the front of the cover will be seen, I don't mind the texture to be made only for the front cover.
I'll keep the UVs coming regarding the other textures. Also, as a side note: the UV is actually rectangular (whole width of the picture, aligned with the bottom), the top part of the 1024x1024 image will have to be left transparent.
Actually if we could find a photo of Chuck Norris in this pose it would be ideal!
If you manage to get Chuck Norris's approval for the use of one photograph, then by all means...  :D
« Last Edit: 2014-08-04 02:13:31 by Mayo Master »

LeonhartGR

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #26 on: 2014-08-04 02:20:57 »

yarLson

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #27 on: 2014-08-04 22:08:23 »
Done! Move on.


Mayo Master

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #28 on: 2014-08-05 15:35:06 »
Done! Move on.
No.
As I was explaining previously in this thread, the 2D artists needs to pay attention to copyright matters. Unless I can be assured that an underlying image (meaning, before photoshopping) can be used, I would rather not use a derivative work. Image alteration doesn't not change ownership. The question I would have is: if you change an image so much that the original is no longer recognizable, would copyright still apply? I don't know where the law stands on the matter.
We in Team Avalanche have to walk a fine line in order to remain within the context of fair use to merely apply our mods to the game. Last thing we want is to have to debate of fair use during the making of each of the scenes. I hope you understand what we have to deal with, and that's also why I have refrained from applying filters on googled images to do the trick. So, that's why I need help, and that's why these images would take time in the making.

LeonhartGR

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #29 on: 2014-08-05 15:47:30 »
As far as I know Seven film won a lawsuit for the use of such images with the dispute that they were not recognizable and in a really low resolution.

http://photosecrets.com/copyright-artwork-movies

Quote
Seven
Seven
Media   Movie
Year   1995
Starring   Brat Pitt, Morgan Freeman
Director   David Fincher
Company   New Line Cinema
Case   Sandoval v. New Line, 1998
Verdict   No infringement (dismissed)

The 1995 movie Seven showed ten distinctive and copyrighted photographs without the photographer’s permission. They appeared “out of focus and displayed only briefly in eleven different shots” “for a total of approximately 35.6 seconds” with the longest shot lasting “six seconds.”

The court dismissed the photographer’s copyright infringement claim, ruling that the use was de minimis — too minor to merit an action.

“Because [the] photographs appear fleetingly and are obscured, severely out of focus, and virtually unidentifiable, we find the use of those photographs to be de minimis.”
— Sandoval v. New Line Cinema Corp., 147 F. 3d 215, 1998

“… where the unauthorized use of a copyrighted work is de minimis, no cause of action will lie for copyright infringement, and determination of a fair use claim is unnecessary.”
— Sandoval v. New Line Cinema Corp., 147 F. 3d 215, 1998

“[when] the allegedly infringing work makes such a quantitatively insubstantial use of the copyrighted work as to fall below the threshold required for actionable copying, it makes more sense to reject the claim on that basis and find no infringement, rather than undertake an elaborate fair use analysis …”
— Ringgold, 126 F.3d at 76

“To establish that the infringement of a copyright is de minimis, and therefore not actionable, the alleged infringer must demonstrate that the copying of the protected material is so trivial ‘as to fall below the quantitative threshold of substantial similarity, which is always a required element of actionable copying.’”
— Sandoval v. New Line Cinema Corp., 1998 quoting Ringgold, 126 F.3d at 74
« Last Edit: 2014-08-05 15:55:28 by LeonhartGR »

Kaldarasha

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #30 on: 2014-08-05 16:28:28 »
How about Sabin?

http://prema-ja.deviantart.com/art/FFVI-Mash-384983266

He is a very impressive artist by the way. A good combination of detail and simplicity. It is downloadable so I guess it's free to use, but it doesn't hurt to ask him.

ficedula

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #31 on: 2014-08-05 17:30:51 »
No.
As I was explaining previously in this thread, the 2D artists needs to pay attention to copyright matters. Unless I can be assured that an underlying image (meaning, before photoshopping) can be used, I would rather not use a derivative work. Image alteration doesn't not change ownership. The question I would have is: if you change an image so much that the original is no longer recognizable, would copyright still apply? I don't know where the law stands on the matter.
We in Team Avalanche have to walk a fine line in order to remain within the context of fair use to merely apply our mods to the game. Last thing we want is to have to debate of fair use during the making of each of the scenes. I hope you understand what we have to deal with, and that's also why I have refrained from applying filters on googled images to do the trick. So, that's why I need help, and that's why these images would take time in the making.

While I understand the principle, it's worth pointing out that this entire project is about creating derivative works based on somebody else's copyrighted material (i.e. the original backgrounds that Square created). I can't see that it falls under fair use at all, realistically.

If you're working on the assumption of "likely an infringement of someone's copyright => don't do it", you kind of need to shut the whole project down.

If instead you're going for a more practical approach of "we don't care about copyrights, we just want to avoid doing things that draw attention" then, well, that's completely understandable, but be clear about what the approach is.

Kaldarasha

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #32 on: 2014-08-05 17:59:27 »
While I understand the principle, it's worth pointing out that this entire project is about creating derivative works based on somebody else's copyrighted material (i.e. the original backgrounds that Square created). I can't see that it falls under fair use at all, realistically.

It is based on them, but they are not used directly. This is fan work.

ficedula

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #33 on: 2014-08-05 18:02:12 »
It is based on them, but they are not used directly. This is fan work.

Yes. What part of that makes you think it's not a copyright violation?

Makes Square less likely to notice or care (or both), sure. My point was that applies equally well to any textures you might want to create or re-use.

Kaldarasha

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #34 on: 2014-08-05 18:23:09 »
If I repaint a scene from AC as a template it will be my work. I have full copyright to it. Except for the Characters in the image. But this only matters if I would make a comic with them for profit. There is many fan work out there, which use the pics from the 10th anniversary as template, if this what you imply would be true, then all of them would be illegal. The same would count for the countless Mona Lisa pictures you see in the commercial. If you have done the picture to 100% by yourself, then it is your work.

And this means if Square Enix would decided to use these new renders they have to ask Mayo Master if they could use them.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-05 18:38:09 by Kaldarasha »

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #35 on: 2014-08-05 18:31:48 »
I like all of them, especially the chuck norris one. Pick one and move on  8-)

ficedula

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #36 on: 2014-08-05 18:52:45 »
If I repaint a scene from AC as a template it will be my work. I have full copyright to it. Except for the Characters in the image. But this only matters if I would make a comic with them for profit. There is many fan work out there, which use the pics from the 10th anniversary as template, if this what you imply would be true, then all of them would be illegal.

Yes. Often, fanart / fanfic / etc. is a copyright violation, and the original copyright holder certainly could sue to prevent them being distributed.  Usually they don't, of course, because it's not worth the time / effort / money to do so (and the internet being what it is, the usual game of whack-a-mole would ensure that they wouldn't actually stop it anyway).

Why do you think otherwise? They're usually very clearly derivative works. Of course, if you're not selling them, the original copyright holder is less likely to care.

Quote
The same would count for the countless Mona Lisa pictures you see in the commercial. If you have done the picture to 100% by yourself, then it is your work.

Well, the copyright on the Mona Lisa has expired now - copyright is for a limited period of time, in theory at least...

Quote
And this means if Square Enix would decided to use these new renders they have to ask Mayo Master if they could use them.

True, because he would own the new creative elements that have gone into the renders. That doesn't preclude them also being derived works of Square's original graphics.

yarLson

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #37 on: 2014-08-05 22:55:27 »
No.
As I was explaining previously in this thread, the 2D artists needs to pay attention to copyright matters. Unless I can be assured that an underlying image (meaning, before photoshopping) can be used, I would rather not use a derivative work. Image alteration doesn't not change ownership. The question I would have is: if you change an image so much that the original is no longer recognizable, would copyright still apply? I don't know where the law stands on the matter.
We in Team Avalanche have to walk a fine line in order to remain within the context of fair use to merely apply our mods to the game. Last thing we want is to have to debate of fair use during the making of each of the scenes. I hope you understand what we have to deal with, and that's also why I have refrained from applying filters on googled images to do the trick. So, that's why I need help, and that's why these images would take time in the making.

I am sorry I though it was obvious that it was a joke.  I didn't even fill in the black properly and it looks terrible please, nobody, consider using it for real.  Seriously though, if I was gonna do it I'd probably do a 3d model first of a chibi in a similar pose but with more detail (like TA Cloud chibi).  And then render him into the image.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-05 23:01:02 by yarLson »

Mayo Master

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #38 on: 2014-08-06 00:25:16 »
Ok, regarding copyright, fan art and related stuff:

Fan art in itself is a derivative work, as pointed out by ficedula. Without the expressed permission from the original authors, fan art is a copyright infringement. There is, however, the exception of Fair use. Basically, fair use is about the possibility to make a derivative work without the expressed consent of the original authors if you make a fair use of the original content. In US law, fair use is defined along 4 principles: purpose& character, nature of copyrighted work, amount of copied material, effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
I can't see that it falls under fair use at all, realistically.
I personally see our work falling in the category of fair use, namely based on the following key principles:
- The purpose of our work is to improve the quality of the original art (transformative work, rather than derivative work), without getting personal profit.
- Our mods has to work on the original game: following that principle, anyone willing to play our mods has to pay for the game. In doing so, the only possible financial beneficiary of our mods is Square Enix. If we ever start to make a standalone remake, then we're heading for troubles, as history as shown with the Chrono Trigger resurrection project.

In order to be in the clear, the materials we use to achieve our goals should be our own, or used with expressed permission. This principle also follows one key direction in this site regarding models (i.e. ripped models are forbidden, even parts). In my opinion, the rules we have about the models have also to apply to the textures.

If you're working on the assumption of "likely an infringement of someone's copyright => don't do it", you kind of need to shut the whole project down.

If instead you're going for a more practical approach of "we don't care about copyrights, we just want to avoid doing things that draw attention" then, well, that's completely understandable, but be clear about what the approach is.
I believe we have to be in the clear regarding copyright and fair use. The approach of "we don't care about copyrights, we just want to avoid doing things that draw attention" is not viable at all. If this project is to be completed one day, there will have to be a moment when we get the word out, simply because we need manpower. At some point we will have to draw attention, and try to attract people to work on this project. We'll have to be very careful about how we do that (and that's why we'll have to stand in the clear), else we're going to get the same reactions as Kaldarasha got on Deviantart. Here's one basic consideration:
- I'm working quite a lot on this project, pretty much as much as I can while managing a balanced lifestyle (including a demanding full-time job). If I manage to complete my optimistic objectives I have set for the year, I will have finished about 10 scenes.
- There are 600+ scenes in the game.
- Do the maths about how many people we need and how long we need them, in order to complete the project in a reasonable amount of time. We can't achieve that if we stay underground.

I am sorry I though it was obvious that it was a joke.  I didn't even fill in the black properly and it looks terrible please, nobody, consider using it for real.  Seriously though, if I was gonna do it I'd probably do a 3d model first of a chibi in a similar pose but with more detail (like TA Cloud chibi).  And then render him into the image.
Sorry for the misinterpretation - that's a classic shortcoming of written communication. Especially when you joke and speak seriously on the same topic. That's why we have all these emoticons   ???  ::) :D

yarLson

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #39 on: 2014-08-06 00:50:59 »
Sorry for the misinterpretation - that's a classic shortcoming of written communication. Especially when you joke and speak seriously on the same topic. That's why we have all these emoticons   ???  ::) :D

Your right.  I apologize I should have made it more clear I guess I was just being lazy.  Hopefully I at least garnered a few laughs in the process   :mrgreen:

Dubular

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #40 on: 2014-08-06 03:21:21 »
While I would argue that this project isn't really transformative, and probably doesn't fall under fair use, I would also add that if it were to be completed (to the standards of Mayo and Spoox) it could potentially harm fan interest in a proper remake from Square. Common sense tells us that there'd be plenty of fans still begging for a remake, but the argument could be made.

All that said, it certainly wouldn't hurt by any means to keep the number of people who want to sue TA to a minimum, am I right?

Mayo Master

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #41 on: 2014-08-06 04:02:43 »
While I would argue that this project isn't really transformative, and probably doesn't fall under fair use, I would also add that if it were to be completed (to the standards of Mayo and Spoox) it could potentially harm fan interest in a proper remake from Square. Common sense tells us that there'd be plenty of fans still begging for a remake, but the argument could be made.

All that said, it certainly wouldn't hurt by any means to keep the number of people who want to sue TA to a minimum, am I right?
I can agree with that, although the "loss of interest in a remake" argument is a bit far fetched (whatever my expectations may be for TA's project, a proper remake from Square will have to be a lot better than what a lose bunch of volunteers with limited resources can accomplish). While there may be copyright issues with Square-Enix (that being said, the same copyright problems would apply to all the mods out there, not just TA's works), at least let's try not to have copyright problems with anybody else:)

Dubular

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #42 on: 2014-09-21 23:57:18 »
So I started a new job a few weeks back and it's been sucking the ambition clean out of me. I finally got the urge to work on something today, and made a hi res Turtle's Paradise Flyer. Due to me not actually knowing Japanese or having Japanese fonts, I made it in English. If someone wants to convert it, by all means, but I'm afraid any translation I attempt would be as butchered as much of the original game's dialogue was when translating to English.

I might still tinker with the turtle a bit, but it's pretty much finished. Still uncertain about the font I used for the body text, but after going through my fonts three times I just settled on one.



Also, I wasn't sure whether to go with 'Turtle's Paradise' or 'The Turtle's Paradise', but I liked the way the latter looked better. Also, might need to be changed for Beacause, idk if the re-translation changes the text in that instance, but I figure it's probably best to wait for R02 before calling it good.

Vgr

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #43 on: 2014-09-22 00:01:42 »
Just my 2 cents, but "Turtle's Paradise" should be on one line. It looks weird right now. I would also put less dots and a space between 'it' and the dots.

Otherwise, really nice work, I like it!

Mayo Master

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #44 on: 2014-09-22 02:12:08 »
Thanks a lot for that poster!

Actually, my girlfriend knows enough Japanese to figure out what kanjis are written from the image you displayed on the first page of this thread. So, here's what I suggest: could you please provide an image with no writing, but with the background pattern, the border and the turtle drawing? Then I can write the kanjis on it (with the luxury of either using a Japanese font or asking my girlfriend to "handwrite" them).

Dubular

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #45 on: 2014-09-22 02:38:35 »
That'd make things easier on my end, specifically because I think all but one of the Turtle's Paradise posters on the extras disc uses the same design. The Gold Saucer poster is different, but still uses the same turtle so won't be hard to make when the time comes (optimistic  :wink:).

Is there a particular size you'd like it to be?

Mayo Master

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Re: Team Avalanche looking for 2D artists
« Reply #46 on: 2014-09-22 04:05:17 »
The resolution you had in your previous picture was more than enough, you can send me the same resolution as that.
Thanks  :)