Author Topic: BS-ed by windows (Read 10479 times)

Rubicant · « **on:** 2002-11-01 06:53:17 »

I recently purchased a new video card. It is a Nvidia Geforce 2 MX400. I was very concerned with the heat that it generates because the dang thing only came with a heatsink. So, I decided to place a large case fan next to it to cool it off because I don't have any extra chipset fans. The fan does not have a motherboard fan plug-in for power; it has a 4-pin plug (the ones that are in the power supply). So, I place it appropriately and fire up my machine. Everything is okay until the windows 98 loading screen appears. In the middle of loading windows, the blue scrolling bar STOPS...it's completely locked up. The system is as dead as a rabbit in a mine field. But.... get this:

I say "screw the logo", and formulate another plan. I press f8 before windows starts its logo and I choose to load from a command prompt. I then load windows from there..and *WHAMMO* it works. My video card is a tiny bit cooler than before.

But the question is.. why wouldn't it get past the logo? Anyone got any ideas?

Aaron · « **Reply #1 on:** 2002-11-01 15:16:54 »

Is that a consistent thing? Will it never load past the logo, and always load through the command prompt, or was it just a one-time first-try thing? Cause, I think Windows could get confused if you swapped video cards without properly removing the drivers for the old one, and that could result in a crash... I don't think your video card could overheat from displaying the Windows logo (after all, I have 8-year-old video cards can show the Win98 logo fine, and they don't even have heatsinks

)

Rubicant · « **Reply #2 on:** 2002-11-01 15:37:54 »

No, I'm sure it's only when the fan is in. In fact, I am too sure because I'm not a freakin idiot...

The night before I tried the same thing with a motherboard-connected fan and it still screwed up. I only have ONE fan slot so I had to unplug the main fan (which doesn't do much of anything anyways) so that I could use that fan that I had mounted on the video card's lonely heatsink. That plan failed fast.

Oh, and by the way, windows has never locked up like that normally with that video card in. And it really doesn't make ANY sense for it to lock up like that because it is much cooler with the new fan.

Seriously Arron, what do you take me for?

Nori · « **Reply #3 on:** 2002-11-01 15:44:13 »

Quote from: Aaron

Is that a consistent thing? Will it never load past the logo, and always load through the command prompt, or was it just a one-time first-try thing? Cause, I think Windows could get confused if you swapped video cards without properly removing the drivers for the old one, and that could result in a crash... I don't think your video card could overheat from displaying the Windows logo (after all, I have 8-year-old video cards can show the Win98 logo fine, and they don't even have heatsinks :P)

Been there and done that!!! *Backup the your harddrive!!!*

Rubicant · « **Reply #4 on:** 2002-11-01 16:18:10 »

I've got to admit that I half-assedly un-installed the ATi drivers (I think I forgot to get rid of the device drivers, not sure) but that is not relevant because it works normally when I have no fan modifications. The only thing logical that I could possibly think of is maybe the power supply is having a "power struggle" with the new video card. The system I am doing this on is a Dell, so I wouldn't be suprised that they rigged the power supply and motherboard to have a power limit to the video card...which meaning that somehow the fan can throw it off....

But then right there it doesn't make sense because I can bypass the problem. That seriously makes no sense. Well, time for my asstronomy test (yeah that's right, I'm cheating on the test because the teacher is a jerk and wouldn't help me study for it).

You can wish me luck, but I won't need it!

Aaron · « **Reply #5 on:** 2002-11-01 16:22:45 »

Ok, so, I kinda misunderstood your first post, sorry.

Anyway
If it only messes up when you've been messing with the fans, and your new fan arrangement should make the card cooler, then you'd think its a power problem. But this shouldn't be too much of a problem, cause I don't think that fans take too much power, but I dunno. How big is your PSU?

As far as Dell rigging it like you suggest... dunno if they would have done that, but I have heard some other interesting stories about Dell power supplies. You might see if you can borrow a bigger one ("bigger"? More power...) from a different computer, and if it works right, buy a new one...

Rubicant · « **Reply #6 on:** 2002-11-01 18:32:02 »

Well, I am going to get my new motherboard today, so I can just talk smack about that Dell computer from now on...

That's the whole reason why I bought my new video card in the first place...to be used on my new motherboard. For some reason my motherboard got held up in the mail because the stupid shipping company told me that it couldn't afford to send me the package in three days. So, they said I had to send it in either 2day service or overnight.

Of course, I got my new card first and I was so excited to try it...I almost peed my pants when I played warcraft II with tv-out mode

Rubicant · « **Reply #7 on:** 2002-11-01 22:22:06 »

Hmm..well isn't THAT something? After being away from the computer for about 11 hours I boot it up and it doesn't lock up at the loading screen. I guess it just needed some time to realize that a small thing had changed in the system..or something like that.

What a strange ordeal...

Rubicant · « **Reply #8 on:** 2002-11-03 21:52:05 »

I have finally narrowed down the problem. I had loaded the detonator 40 drivers on the dell computer..and that is what caused the mess-up. I tried using the detonator 40 drivers on my new system and it still screwed up like that. That's quite idiotic of Nvidia to put out drivers like that..

"More performance for the sacrifice of your system's soul.."

Sounds like Nvidia is demonic..

Aaron · « **Reply #9 on:** 2002-11-03 22:04:33 »

Well, they are beta drivers. You can't expect 'em to work perfectly

I used em for a while, but alas, they caused crashes, so I'm waiting for a final [WHCL Certified] release

Rubicant · « **Reply #10 on:** 2002-11-04 06:23:19 »

ok, now I have been having problems with my new motherboard and my athlon xp 1900+. When I first started up the computer (friday), it recognized my cpu as a 1200mhz athlon cpu, which is incorrect. Hmm...isn't an athlon xp 1900+ supposed to be 1600mhz? Well, I checked by bios settings and noticed that my fsb and dram clock speeds were at 100mhz. The athlon xp 1900+ requires both to be at 133mhz (hence the term 266mhz). When I tried to change these things, the bios setup only allowed me to change the dram timing. so, I went to my motherboard's website (ECS is my motherboard brand) and flashed my bios to the newest it could possibly be. So, I went back into the bios and changed everything to 133mhz.

So, it reboots after the changes are saved..and just sits there. Nothin'. So, I turn it off for about 15 minutes and boot it up again. It finally gets somewhere in the boot process and notifies me that it had properly detected my cpu (amd athlon xp, 1900+). Just as the system gets done with detecting my hard drives (just like all systems do at initial start-up), it completely locks up. Any ideas? I am using the right type of ram, and I've tried flashing my bios with older versions which are on my motherboard's website.

I've already sent a request for help at my motherboard's tech support page, but they claim that it will take 5 days +

Anyone had any problem similar to this?

Rubicant · « **Reply #11 on:** 2002-11-04 11:36:39 »

hmph...It appears that my problem was very similar to darnkess's a while back. Heat. Inside the bios the temperature wasn't too high when I looked at it's status, but apparently some heatsink g00 was the final trick. The heatsink that I purchased with the motherboard didn't even come with the heatsink gel stuff. Well, I'm running at 1.6 ghz and lovin' it

Aaron · « **Reply #12 on:** 2002-11-04 17:25:35 »

Err, what board are you using? I have a K7VZA, kinda neat to find other people using ECS...

ficedula · « **Reply #13 on:** 2002-11-04 17:39:30 »

Heh, I also had an ECS, the K7AMA (not too different) ... my problem was a bit different though; it autodetected the speeds correctly, but I wanted to overclock it

Incidentally, on my board at least while you can tweak the selections in the BIOS (well, with /certain/ versions...) the *basic* CPU bus speed (ie. 100/133) has to be set on the motherboard. So check the manual; it might want you to use jumpers to set the basic speed.

Aaron · « **Reply #14 on:** 2002-11-04 17:53:12 »

I can't overclock mine either

Same - I can set the bus speed with jumpers on the board (only options are 100/133). My processor is a 950 mhz Athlon with a 100 mhz bus, but if I set the bus to 133 (which would move the processor up to like 1266), the processor just doesn't turn on (cause it knows its set wrong, I think)...

...anyway, my Athlon XP 2400+ should be here tomorrow, I'm happy

Rubicant · « **Reply #15 on:** 2002-11-04 22:30:15 »

I have a K7S5A...and it "autodetects" the speeds in a really DUMB way. At least I got my system running pretty fast. I just wish I could overclock. I've done it with all of my systems...this time I'll have to break old traditions. I'll just go off and cry in a corner now.. :weep:

Caddberry · « **Reply #16 on:** 2002-11-05 04:16:50 »

Quote from: Aaron

...anyway, my Athlon XP 2400+ should be here tomorrow, I'm happy

just curious.. does that have AGP 8x? i want to get a new motherboard.. but damn i really dont want to screw with it until AGP 8x becomes standard.. along with USB 2.0.. i am so trying to wait.. and .. are there even any AGP 8x vid cards out yet? i havent run across any .. but i havent really looked either.. i also want to get RDRAM.. instead of DDR.. but eh who knows.. i might get the DDR SDRAM.. but i will definitely get an Athlon..

Aaron · « **Reply #17 on:** 2002-11-05 12:26:43 »

I don't think you can get an Athlon with RDRAM. There are 8x AGP slots but my board doesn't have the slot (I have a Ti 4600). The Radeon 9700 is the only 8x AGP card out now, I think, but NV30 will also be.

Check out this board - might be what you're looking for.

atzn · « **Reply #18 on:** 2002-11-05 15:24:42 »

Quote from: Aaron

I don't think you can get an Athlon with RDRAM. There are 8x AGP slots but my board doesn't have the slot (I have a Ti 4600). The Radeon 9700 is the only 8x AGP card out now, I think, but NV30 will also be.

If I'm not mistaken nVidia has re-released the new GeForce4 Ti's to support AGP 8x....

Rubicant · « **Reply #19 on:** 2002-11-05 15:33:17 »

Yeeeup. I don't think you're mistaken. I saw an ad or something about the geforce 4 supporting 8x AGP.

Btw, is it pretty normal for the Athlon XP to screw up more in older windows versions? That does make sense since it is a pretty new cpu. I'm just wondering: should I make a switch to XP or 2000? Of course this will sacrifice my ability to play a few of my favorite games, but I DO have other computers that use (and will always) windows 98.

Should I make a mad dash to the 2k?

Aaron · « **Reply #20 on:** 2002-11-05 16:22:49 »

I like 2K/XP way better than 9x. I run XP on my computer - although I've heard several complaints about it, I actually like it quite a bit.

As far as compatibility, I have few games that don't work, and if they aren't 3D then you can always run them in Virtual PC on Windows 98 or below.

I've never heard of an Athlon XP or Pentium 4 screwing up in older Windows versions, but I don't think you'll get the full kick out of your processor in 9x versions of Windows...

Caddberry · « **Reply #21 on:** 2002-11-05 20:23:08 »

Quote from: Aaron

I don't think you can get an Athlon with RDRAM.

yeah thats my bad.. i dont think i have seenone of those either.. to the best of my knowlege RDRAM is just an intel thing.. its also faster though from my understanding.. and causes a lot more heat.. that board was smooth.. but probably way too much $$$ to spend when i would have to buy a new vid card.. plus more RAM.. or well new RAM.. the rest of my crap would migrate over.. but well geee the core components.. would be struck.. i didnt find a price on it tho..i will probably use price watch.com.. i got my 80GB hard drive for under $100.. it shipped to me in just a static proof baggie.. i was kinda disappointed by that.. but hell.. it works.. it works very well actually..

Aaron · « **Reply #22 on:** 2002-11-05 20:31:27 »

On Pricewatch, I'm seeing the GA-7VAXP for like $100. Not too bad. But then you need a CPU and some memory before you can use it... and DDR memory is still pretty expensive.

atzn · « **Reply #23 on:** 2002-11-05 22:01:08 »

Quote from: Rubicant

Btw, is it pretty normal for the Athlon XP to screw up more in older windows versions? That does make sense since it is a pretty new cpu. I'm just wondering: should I make a switch to XP or 2000? Of course this will sacrifice my ability to play a few of my favorite games, but I DO have other computers that use (and will always) windows 98.

Should I make a mad dash to the 2k?

I don't think it will screw up in older versions (like Win98)..

But yeah as Aaron said if u use older windows u won't get the full kick out of your new Athlon XP processor.

As for Windows choice.. Win2k is good.. anyway.. double booting is always a nice option to have..

Lord Kane · « **Reply #24 on:** 2002-11-05 22:40:09 »

Quote from: Caddberry

to the best of my knowlege RDRAM is just an intel thing.. its also faster though from my understanding.. and causes a lot more heatquote

Yes and no.
RDRam has far greater bandwidth (can be up to 1GHz now, when DDR only goes up to 400MHz ATM), but its' CAS latency is far higher (IIRC it notmaly has a CAS latency of 8 as opposed to DDR's 2). This means that all in all unless you have an app that specificaly stresses bandwidth, you won't notice much if any difference.