Problem with ff7 and windows 2000 pro SP4

[Red Ghost]

Hi,
I have read all the FAQs, searched the whole forum and did not succeed running final fantasy VII and final fantasy config file.

My specs:
Win2K SP4 with Windows Application Compatibility Toolkit 3.0
NVidia GeForce4 MX400 with latest driver
SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 (checked the driver: it is the latest)
DirectX 9.0b
FF7 1.0 french version CDs

Solutions tried as Administrator:
1- installed the missing codec and checked the video files: runs OK.
2- updated my graphics card driver.
3- installed FF7, Direct Show and Yamaha software.
4- running FF7Config.exe 1.0: freezes Win2K.
5- running FF7Config.exe 1.0 through WACT 3.0: freezes Win2K.
5b- running FF7Config.exe 1.0 with slayerui.dll layer win98: freezes Win2K.
6- installed FF7 1.02 french version
7- running FF7Config.exe 1.02: freezes Win2K
8- running FF7Config.exe 1.02 through WACT 3.0: freezes Win2K
8b- running FF7Config.exe 1.02 with slayerui.dll layer win98: freezes Win2K
9- closed running programs in task bar(Firewall, Anti-spam, Anti-Virus, Nvidia center, ...)
10- retried steps 4,5,7 and 8: freezes Win2K.
11- retried steps 4,5 and 10 with FF7.exe with chocobo patch applied: freezes Win2K.
12- modified the register using a register file posted in this forum.
13- retried steps 4,5,7, 8 and 10: freezes Win2K

Constraint:
I am willing to keep my OS Win2K since everything else works.

Problem description:
Windows 2000 freezes. If there are running programs in the task bar, the firewall in shut down and the anti-virus agent is deactivated. The task Manager is unaccessible. The OS cannot be closed or rebooted through Ctrl+Alt+Supp. Each time Win2K is frozen, I must manually power down the computer.
When starting through WACT 3.0, there is the messagebox "waiting for application to finish" but nothing happens.

Does anybody have an idea ?

Thanks in advance.
Red.

EDIT: forgot to tell that it is installed on another Hard drive lettered D. I have not tried installing on HD lettered C.
Red.

[Chesso]

I had no such luck running it on Windows 2000 Proffesional on any service pack both me and my brother run it on windows xp with minimal problems or none.

I can't suggest anything but upgrade(or do a side install and have both os's) or even use an older one. My brother runs both 2k Pro SP4 and WindowsXP Home SP1 and both on the same drive and partition without any problems.

[Red Ghost]

@chesso:
I looked through your mail history to see what are your computer specs and found none. Could you tell me what are your computer specs and the actions you used to install FF7 ? I also saw you weren't using firewalls or anti-virus programs. Is it still true ?
Thanks in advance.
Red.

[Chesso]

My PC:

Windows XP Home SP1.
Intel Pentium Coppermine 933mhz.
256mb SDRAM 133mhz 168-PIN.
Microstar MS-8802 with nVidia Riva TNT2 chipset and 16mb memory. With nVidia Detonator 66.93 Drivers.
Onboard AC'97 Audio with SoundMAX drivers.

I run in software mode 640x480 fullscreen and have chocobo patch and true motion update applied.

Brother's PC:

Windows 2000 Profesional SP4 and Windows XP Home SP1.
Intel Celeron II 333mhz.
128mb SDRAM 100mhz 168-PIN.
Onboard ATI RAGE IIc with 4mb memory and default XP drivers.
Onboard Crystal audio with default xp drivers.

Doesn't run on Win2k but does on WinXP with same patch and true motion update as above. Run in lowest resolution full screen also in software mode.

I do not use firewall's but my modem has an inbuilt router. I only use anti virus and other such infection removal tools when i suspect a problem or find a/some suspicious files.

I installed normally plus i actually use the Ultima Edition which didn't require any aditional patches or configuration though me and my brother also have the original installed on both machines.

EDIT: Original was installed on both machines from disc and ultima from my hd.

[Red Ghost]

@chesso:
Thanks for the info. I'll have a look into Windows XP.
I'll get back to this thread to post the result.
It may take a while though.
Red.

[Red Ghost]

Hi,
I installed Windows XP dual boot with Windows 2000. No problem here.
I then added all my drivers, DX9, the codec path and installed FF7 in XP.
I still can't run FF7 but I can now Identify more easily the source of the problem.
It definitely is ff7config.exe that freezes my computer. At the first play of FF7, it automatically loads ff7config.exe.
Here is what I did:
1- ff7 v1.0 + chocobo patch: 100% CPU use I can kill the process. No game.
2- ff7 patch v1.2 + chocobo patch: 100% CPU I can't kill the process. No game.
3- ff7 v1.0 + chocobo patch + registry found in forums here (to bypass ff7config): the screen shows a scrambled image from my desktop. Computer is frozen.
4- ff7 v1.2 + chocobo patch + registry found in forums here (to bypass ff7config): the screen shows a scrambled image from my desktop. Computer is frozen.

Windows 98 compatibility does not change anything to the previous 4 tests.

The symptoms have evolved: XP does seem part of the solution. Still I must be stuck somewhere else. Since ff7config does not start it must be a driver problem or a card detection problem.

My latest specs:
Windows XP
MSI NVidia GeForce4 MX440 with latest driver
SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 (checked the driver: it is the latest)
DirectX 9.0b
FF7 1.0 french version CDs

Any Idea ?
Red.

[Chesso]

Well you coudl get DirectX 9.0c seen as it's the latest and there's no real issues with it. do you have Service Pack 1? that's what i use i never tested on xp home as is.

Compatibility shouldn't change a thing or atleast for me it didn't. Run the config first and set it in software mode then run ff7 and see how it go's.

[Aaron]

...He just said that he can't run the config.

In the registry, do you have HKLM\SOFTWARE\Square Soft, Inc.\Final Fantasy VII\1.00\Graphics\Driver set to 0?  If you do, the game should try to run in software rendering.  If you don't, please set it to 0 and try to run the game again (with whatever you did to skip it running the config), I'm curious to see if that works.

If it's already set to 0 and the game won't run...  I'm going to say make sure you try intsalling the upside-down movie patch to make sure the codec it needs to play the opening video is installed, and if it still doesn't work, then that's wierd.

[Chesso]

He said it try's to run when he runs FF7 which happens when it hasn't been configured or the registry settings are not present/incorrect. Atleast this is how it worked for me.

[Red Ghost]

I am not at home yet.
I will try the registry key settings.

Besides isn't the Duck codec patch the same as the upside/down movie patch ? I know the codec is correctly installed becaused the movies play fine under windows multimedia reader.

I'll get back tomorrow (it is 18:31 here in France).
Thanks
Red.

-----

Just to let you know that the duck codec patch and the upside down movie patch are the same. I got mine at the french Eidos support site.
Red.

MOD EDIT: Don't double-post, please.

[Red Ghost]

Ok, I am back and nothing works:(
With the Codec patch installed and windows 98 compatibility, I tried:
- ff7 1.2 french with import of a register settings: game opens on black screen, process is frozen. I can kill the process.
- ff7 1.2 french with import of a register settings and Gfx Driver key set to 0: game opens on black screen, process and computer is frozen.

I also did the same with Gfx drivers retrograded to 54.01 (using the recipe given for GeForce 4 in another subject). It did not change.

What does seem weird is that everybody under Windows XP in this forum seems to succeed to run ff7config.Exe. I still can't without freezing my computer. I will try tonight the ff7 1.02 english version and see if it does change anything.

Edit: looking through my computer settings, I also found IRQ conflicts with my sound card. I will try resolving the conflicting IRQ settings.

Thanks.
Red.

EDIT:
Back again.
Well the english version of ff7config doesn't work either.

I looked into my settings and found something weird: looking into device manager i find out two IRQ conflicts that are not reported under Winmsd.
- Gfx card under IRQ 16 with PCI steering of a USB controller
- Sound card under IRQ 22 with ACPI windows

Looking through my documentations, ACPI and PCI will not generate an IRQ conflict. So I am stuck. Does anybody here succeed to run FF7 with shared IRQs ?
To check under winXP, right-click My_Computer, select Properties, go to View, select Resources_By_Connection and expand Interrupt_Request. This will show a complete list of all the IRQs in use.

Thanks in advance.
Red.

Unrelated side note: it does seem I have some trouble logging to the forums. When I am logged from my workplace no Edit post buttons appear. When I am logged from home there are no problems. It seems to be a Firewall conflict with PayPal icon at work.

[Chesso]

Well on my previous card a Riva TNT2 i used the latest(at the time) 66.93 Drivers without problems. I never used any 1.1 or 1.2 patches as hardware settings didn't work for me only software mode.

The only patches i had applied were The True Motion Codec Update(to correct upside down movies and ones that crashed or it did for me anyway) and the chocobo race patch.

EDIT: That's weird your'e describing the problem i had with Windows 2000 SP4.

[Red Ghost]

Hi,
I think I have understood what the problem was. Since FF7 was developped for win95, it uses old PCI numbering (IRQ 0 to 15). Since my graphics card and my sound card use IRQ over 15, FF7 and FF7config do not work. Moreover, conflicting IRQs are not solved: the administrator must ensure that his gfx and sound cards are strictly alone on IRQ settings.

I deactivated my gfx card under windows XP: this had the weird effect of changing the IRQ setting to IRQ 11 (no conflict). I then deactivated the sound card (the sound card was not reaffected to another IRQ: it disappeared). Then I ran ff7config: it worked telling me I had no sound card declared.

To validate my understanding of the problem, can you tell me:
- which IRQ use your sound and gfx card.
- if you use an old autoexec.bat file with BLASTER variable set. If so, can you post your autoexec.bat ?

Thanks in advance.
Red.

[Chesso]

Sound is onboard AC'97 and my bios for old motherboard im using right now doesn't display it. My gfx card i think is having IRQ COnflicts right now and i can't set it.

I tryed my new mobo, cpu and ram the other day but the ram is bad so i had to put my old hardware in for awhile and gfx card comes up with errors until i remove from device manager list and re-add it. Then i have to set all my driver settings again and again(everytime i reboot).

Mine were all set automatically and i had no issues until now.

[J*** H*******]

Message

[Chesso]

Me? DirectX and Video drivers are no different then before and iv'e tried un-installing and re-installing but still no good.

And what about the DirectX API?

[Red Ghost]

@Chesso:
You can see the IRQ really used under windows XP by right-clicking My_Computer, selecting Properties, going to View, selecting Resources_By_Connection and expanding Interrupt_Request(IRQ).
This is where you will see it.

Regarding DirectX 9, it does not have any effects whatsover. Directx is a library programmed using the COM paradigm: all directx versions interfaces are inherited from a common object (called IUnknown). When a program uses a specific version of DirectX, it must request for its interface. The DirectX 9 library includes all DirectX interfaces from the first version to the most recent. The only case an interface is modified is when the version is current and under modification (like the version 9.0 which evolved from 9.0a to 9.0c). The DirectX version 5 interface is stored within DirectX version 9 and has not changed since DirectX changed into version 6: this was while Eidos was still supporting FF7. Thus switching from DirectX 9.0a to 9.0c will not have any effect.

As to my request about autoexec.bat, it dates back from DOS times where the IRQ of the sound card was to be set manually. At that time, the user had to add a variable called BLASTER and manually associate parameters (namely IRQ and DMA). This looked like:
SET BLASTER I5 D1
This means my sound card uses IRQ 5 and DMA 1. Some old Win95 games still request the presence of the BLASTER variable to function properly.

@Jari:
Yes I know what is a driver. Still when you check about the time FF7 was developped, you must take into account the architecture at that period. You can see it when you look at why the chocobo patch was developped (old dangling reference to 16 bit pointer). I can't avoid that possibility since I got back control of my computer and normal ff7config program execution after having displaced my gfx card to IRQ 11 and deactivating my sound card.

My trouble is that I may need to switch my OS from APCI mode to PCI mode so that I can switch IRQs back to the range 0-15. I am also looking into my Bios to see if I can assign an IRQ number to the PCI slot where my soundcard is: if I can't, it is back to switching from APCI to PCI.

Thanks.
Red.

[Qhimm]

Yes I know what is a driver. Still when you check about the time FF7 was developped, you must take into account the architecture at that period. You can see it when you look at why the chocobo patch was developped (old dangling reference to 16 bit pointer). I can't avoid that possibility since I got back control of my computer and normal ff7config program execution after having displaced my gfx card to IRQ 11 and deactivating my sound card.

FF7 was developed for DirectX 3 if I recall correctly. Not only were the drivers of that time already quite capable of managing computer resources, but because of DirectX FF7 doesn't even touch anything hardware-related or drivers, it's all abstracted through DirectX layers. Incidentally, this is the reason people can run FF7 today at all, since the ways of accessing hardware in Windows pre-DirectX would wreak havoc on modern systems. Also, your example of the Chocobo crash is flawed as well, since a) it's not a 16-bit pointer, b) it's probably not even a remnant of PSX, just sloppy coding, and c) it's quite irrelevant to hardware problems.

The fact that you got things working after messing with IRQ and deactivating devices should raise far more concern about the state of your computer than the programming of FF7.

[Chesso]

Well you seem to know abit about IRQ Conflicts and such so maybe you could help me out? lol. I checked what it was using after removing and and re-adding through add hardware wizard(i have to do this everytime i boot) and it said 9.

Now there's no IRQ setting for AGP in my bios on this old hardware but i heard something or rather about PCI Slot 1 having something to do with AGP so i set it to manual and to 9 but still the same thing happens. For some reason my driver setting's are also reset.

Perhaps for some reason it isn't saving my configuration  

[Red Ghost]

@Qhimm:
Looking back into FF7 it was developped for DirectX 5. You are right that DirectX does shield the programmer from accessing directly the hardware. Still I can only wonder as to why ff7config started to work after IRQ modifications. I also do not know if the developper used the full DirectX library.

Besides the state of my computer is quite simple: clean installation of Windows XP on an empty partition. Asus BIOS is PnP with APCI enabled. I only installed my hardware drivers (Gfx and Sound card), DirectX 9.0a and FF7. Does the state of my computer really give any concern   ?

Now from Chesso description, it does seem that it may not be an IRQ conflict after all since his FF7 works with his Gfx card and sound card are registered under IRQ 9(APCI over a PCI motherboard ?). However this may mean that because my IRQ numbers are over 15, DirectX 5 or FF7 is not able to find back the Gfx and Snd card: I am left to wonder since newest versions of DirectX function flawlessly with my hardware under Windows 2000(and I happen to do some programming and never found trouble - IRQ settings are identical to XP).

I told a friend at work about this and he remembered having a problem of the same kind with the game Gabriel Knight 3 using DirectX 6.1: the game was needing the sound card at IRQ 7 else it would not execute eventhough it used DirectX (and it seemed it was one of the reason that the game was labelled incompatible with windows 2000).

We do not really know what the programmer did or did not. I can only surmise by looking at my configuration and comparing with others. However I stand corrected as to the reason of the Chocobo patch.

Do you play with ff7 ? if so what is your configuration and IRQ settings for sound and Gfx card ?

Thanks
Red.

@chesso:
This is normal. This is the way Windows manages APCI on some configurations: IRQ 9 serves as a gateway to access IRQ 16 to 23. You can have a look at this:
http://kb.indiana.edu/data/agln.html?cust=354920.86436.30
This link explains how to use the device manager for windows and how to detect real IRQ conflicts.
This link will give some pointers as to how to free additional IRQs for the computer:
http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?threadid=56475

Be aware that switching IRQs needs a careful and methodic approach. Always write down the previous settings before changing them. The IRQs are assembly programs registered in memory to query and pass data to a specific hardware: changing an IRQ may mean you try to query and pass data to no hardware or to the wrong hardware.

[EDIT - clarification: what is normal is not the IRQ conflict but the fact that windows uses IRQ9.]

Hope that helps.
Red.

[As a side note about ACPI:
found at http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb03/articles/pcmusician0203.asp
The ACPI versus Standard Mode installation debate is still raging in various forums, but I'm sticking to my advice that you should let XP install itself in the default ACPI Mode unless you know that your soundcard has specific problems with it (the Soundblaster Live! and some M Audio cards, for instance, seem to benefit from Standard Mode). If you're not sure, stick with ACPI, since you can always remove it from an existing installation if you run into problems by rerunning the XP setup routine as I described. Moreover, some modern motherboards now offer an Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller (APIC) that offers 24 interrupts under Windows XP in ACPI mode rather than the 16 available to Standard Mode, so if yours provides this feature you should always stick to ACPI. Apparently it's also faster at task-switching, leaving a tiny amount more CPU power for running applications.
]

[J*** H*******]

Message

[Red Ghost]

@Jari:
Well DirectX is composed of many sub libraries: DirectSound, DirectMusic, DirectInput, DirectDraw, Direct3D, DirectPlay and DirectShow (DirectDraw and Direct3D were united in 8.0 under the name DirectGraphics, DirectMusic only appeared in 6.1). What I was meaning was that the developper could have used the DirectDraw/Direct3D libraries and neglected the DirectSound part: this would mean that my graphic card would not be a cause of my problem but my sound card would be.

Also, from my latest edit, I just found out an exerpt showing SoundBlaster Live! IRQ problems which would mean that the problem would not lie in ff7 or DirectX5 but in my sound card.

As to Gabriel Knight he was sure it was the 3rd. It was a while ago under win2000 and at that moment the application compatibility toolkit was not operational. I conceed I do not have the detail of his sound card to check if it was sound card related or not.

[EDIT: @chesso
The following link may give you insight about how to remove your IRQ9 based problem.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Mar02/articles/pcmusician0302.asp]

Red.

[2nd Edit:

I changed the computer driver to standard PC and got all my IRQs with no conflicts in the range 0-15 (no BIOS modification leaving the other OS in dual boot untouched). My sound card still blocks ff7. I am at a loss here  -_- .

Meanwhile for those interested here is a clean procedure to switch the OS from ACPI to standard PCI (WinXP. Could work with Win2k but untested).
1- insert your OS CD and select update the OS: this process takes about 25 min.
2- once back on desktop go to the device manager, select system devices and uninstall PCI Bus. Do not reboot.
3- select resources by connexion, go to IRQ and uninstall Microsoft APCI. Do not reboot.
4- back to the device manager, select my computer and change the driver. Precise you want to select the driver from a list. You select PC standard. Reboot.
5- when back to the OS, let it reinstall all drivers and you are ready.

Thanks
Red.]

[Red Ghost]

Problem is found and identified:

The soundblaster Live! is not compatible with FF7. As soon as I have deactivated the soundblaster and activated my motherboard integrated soundcard, everything was all right.

I will reinstall back my computer in APCI to check the IRQ distribution have no effect on ff7 configuration.
I also have seen that even if my soundblaster was deactivated, it was still accessible by the ff7config.exe. I will look into this matter to see if it is possible to trick ff7 into using the soundblaster even if its driver is deactivated (my aim is to get the sound fonts playing in ff7). I will post the results in this thread.

Thanks all for your patience and your help.
Red.

[Chesso]

I can change ACPI and PCI in my Asus P4S800-MX bios. As for the IRQ conflicts they are now solved that i have some decent kingston ram for my new board to chomp on. Plus my Cele D oc'ed at 3.6ghz  

[Red Ghost]

I changed back my computer driver to APCI and double checked everything. It runs OK. Contrary to the first erroneous suggestion I made there is no IRQ problems. The origin of the problem is the soundcard Soundblaster Creative Live! 5.1.

Symptoms:
ff7config and ff7 freeze whenever the Soundblaster Creative Live! 5.1 driver is activated.

Solution:
- install a second soundcard or install your motherboard integrated soundcard driver.
- deactivate SoundBlaster Creative Live! 5.1 driver.

Drawbacks of the solution:
unless the second soundcard manages soundfonts, you can't use the soundfonts.

I am still searching to remove the drawbacks.
Thanks everyone.
Red.