Hi, New to the forum, got some questions =)

[SupremeServer]

Hi all, Im new, just found this forum today and Im glad I did, I was searching for patches for my old classic ff7 pc game on google and went to the animevamp forum and saw their patches then i saw this site and some other site saying their patch is a rip off from other ppls work, kinda sad that alot of people on animevamp forum still think animevamp is like a god of ff7 but anyways, whats included in the xp patch from animevamp? it seems like the filesize is pretty big from v1.4

Im a sound and graphics freak, i like everything to be perfectly perfect, i see good projects are in progress on this forum, like the hi resolution patch and the hi resolution models, I was wondering, since I dont use creative sound card (using the cheap Realtek ALC850), soundfonts is not an option for me, the only way to improve the sound effect in ff7 is to use yamaha xg the software solution, which one is better? creative soundfont vs yamaha xg in terms of sound effect qualify? I know they sound different, but which one do you think sound better?

I would like to support anyone who is working on mods that will improvement ff7 gameplay, i will give you free web hosting/mirrors for your projects, 500mb space and 5gb bandwidth, php/mysql, no ads, if you are interested just check www.duoservers.us and apply for it, just mention you are apply for FF7 mods hosting.

I wish ff7 source code would get leaked on the net like windows and half life 2 source code did, that way ppl can work on the engine, do bug fixes and improve the game play so much easier, even though ff7 is not the best rpg (i personally think Grandia 2 is the best rpg and Chrono Cross 2nd) but it set the standard for the rpg, anything better than ff7 is great rpg and anything worse is bad rpg, ff7 is like the best of ff series, if SquareSoft ever make an MMORPG base on ff7, i bet loads of ppl will rush in and sign up, the current mmorpg games lag good storyline and have bad/stupid game music, its too new, they lag the old classic game's feel unlike ff7 and cc.

[Goku7]

Welcome to the forums, SupremeServer.

...but anyways, whats included in the xp patch from animevamp? it seems like the filesize is pretty big from v1.4

The answer to that question can be found here.

I was wondering, since I dont use creative sound card (using the cheap Realtek ALC850), soundfonts is not an option for me, the only way to improve the sound effect in ff7 is to use yamaha xg the software solution, which one is better? creative soundfont vs yamaha xg in terms of sound effect qualify? I know they sound different, but which one do you think sound better?

To be honest, this is a totally subjective thing.  The Soundfont is designed to imitate the collection of samples used in the PS1 version of FF7, right down to the actual lyrics to One Winged Angel.  If there is a downside, it may be that sometimes, the balance of volume between instruments in a song may sound off, compared to the PS1 soundtrack.  Nevertheless, if your goal is to get the music to sound as close to the PS1 music as possible without trying to use the PSF patch, then this may be the best option for you.

The XG support, on the other hand, is also very good.  I use it myself, with some XG synth hardware I bought specifically so I could play the game without running into any occasional lagging or skipping that may occur due to the very nature of a software synthesizer.  The balance between instruments is good, and while the game does take advantage of the extra instruments the synth has, there are some major downsides.  You don't get the lyrics with One Winged Angel, and you also get a standard boring french horn sample instead of the trademark French Horn sample that Squaresoft uses on all its games nowadays.

The biggest downside for you can be that the XG Softsynth (as well as nearly all other XG softsynths from Yamaha) included with FF7 will not work in the Win2000 or WinXP environment.  If you can track it down, the S-YXG50 Version 4 does work in 2k/XP....but Yamaha, in all its brilliant wisdom, discontinued it.  -_-

[Aaron]

I use the S-YXG50 (software synthesizer Goku7 mentioned) with Yamaha XG MIDI with FF7 and I love it!
Only thing missing is the OWA voices.
(I'm quite disappointed that Yamaha discontinued this... another reason why I am hesitant to move to 64-bit Windows. )

Anyway, the PSF patch is also a nice way to go, but remember that FF7Music tends to be kind of unstable for some people.

[SupremeServer]

I forgot to ask something, I have a habit of collecting anime rpg games, doesnt matter if its good or bad, i just buy them all, i have both pc and psx ff7, since there are emulator like PSXeven and pete's direct3d and opengl plugins, you can play ff7 psx on the emulator using both directx or opengl with different effects and high resolutions, but I never compared both in turns of image qualify, but wouldnt the ff7 psx running on PSXeven be better than the ff7 PC port? cuz speed can be limited and you can play in any resolutions and use any effects and filters d3d and opengl has.

[Goku7]

Yes and no.  2D field backgrounds and movies can be better when you're using an emulator, but at the same time, the 3D images can suffer because there is no perspective correction being applied to the scenery -- so you'll find times that the textures on objects will appear to "crawl" like crazy.  This is because the PS1 has no Z-Buffer, and as such the programmers don't bother including data for the Z-axis (data which is needed for Perspective Correction to be applied in the first place), which means emulators can't apply Perspective correction to the image, either.

The PC version, while suffering from moderate pixelation on the 2D backgrounds, has support for perspective correction, so the graphics look a little cleaner on 3D objects when in motion, despite the limitation of 16-bit colors and 640x480 resolution.

Admittantly, it looks like the overall "quality" of the graphics you get when you use an emulator still outweighs the drawback of texture crawling, but there's been some interesting graphical upgrades that are either "in the works", or already released, for the PC version that may narrow the gap in graphics advantages between the two versions:

Hi-res field models

Run FF7 in a resolution higher than 640x480

....are a few examples of what some talented people around here are trying to do, and there was one other topic around here that I can't seem to find, it followed the development and release of a mod which took the high-detail battle model of Cloud and used it in place of the standard low-detail battle model in battles....

Either way, you can find that mod and a few other ones that have been released, at the download section of http://www.ff7-universe.com.

And if we ever get that 32-bit color support patch fixed, then in addition to what we have already got in the works here the PC version may succeed in either closing or overtaking that gap between what you can do with the PS1 version and what you can do with the PC version.

In the end, though, it's up to you to decide which version you think is better.

[SupremeServer]

Hmm, no wonder I gave away my pc version of ff7 to my friend, I remember seeing very smooth gameplay with the psx on emulator, now I remember, but ya, those project are great, but then I want things to be perfectly perfect, from the pictures in the hi-res model project thread, I find it that the model looks kinda stupid and dumb, I know its alot better than the original but then I think if you want to make hi-res model, you should make it alot better and realistic, there are alot of talented graphic designer at http://www.deviantart.com maybe you guys should ask those artist to see if they can help with the project and improve the models and make them look really really cool, if you know what I mean, its kinda hard to explain, nice and detailed is good, but to make it look really cool is not that easy, only talented artist can do that

[EmperorSteele]

Unfortunatly, therein lies a limitation: ff7 wont accept new 3-d data that easily.  We're only swapping around old/existing models. Getting new poly-information, while POSSIBLE, is hard and not really worth it.  I recall SOMOENE was able to get new 3-d data into the game, but it was like, only a few extra polys on a character and they didn't render correctly or something.

Also, if one copies the movies from the psx version, the pc version will run those (they look much nicer, which eliminates any quality gap there) and theres a music mod so you can use the original psf tunes or Mp3s =)

Plus, with more save-slots and an easy to use save-editor (btw, qhimm, get the stat-change in JENOVA working, wouldya? =P), all this combines to make the pc version trump the psx... IF you have the right setup so you're not gettin crappy lines in the bg or other wierd visiual artifacts/effects.

And hey, goku's pimpin my site.  Ooooh yeah *cool*

[SupremeServer]

At least they should improve on the existing models, you see the screenshot of cloud? his two arms and hands all raised up acting all tough and make him look really stupid and retarded, should make him so his hands and arms doesnt raise up like that

there are alot of improvements you can make for pc versions but then somebody should put together a package with everything in it, like rip the movie from psx and put in pc, thats a good idea, makes it less pixelated and stuff, but all these mods, require time, it would be great if theres a complete package of all these stuff and ppl just double click and done lol

[rmco2003]

Is it possible to put the psx versions of the movies up for download or is that a breach of copyright? It's just I've lost my FF7 PSX version but still have the PC version

[EmperorSteele]

Google =P

Or rent a copy from someplace..

or get it from ebgames for like 10 bucks =P

[Goku7]

And hey, goku's pimpin my site.  Ooooh yeah *cool*

LOL.   It's not just me, either.  The guys on the FF7pc board over at GameFAQs also regularly link to your site when someone asks where to find the various mods and patches for the game.  It's what happens when someone gets smart and hosts such a compiliation all in one place that's easy to get to.

At least they should improve on the existing models, you see the screenshot of cloud? his two arms and hands all raised up acting all tough and make him look really stupid and retarded, should make him so his hands and arms doesnt raise up like that

I see your point, however that is probably something that will be addressed down the road.  The stuff that's been accomplished is more akin to taking our first experimental baby-steps than anything else.  We succeeded in the basic concept (putting "hi-res" battle model of cloud on the field screen and making it walk around without crashing the game), and it will probably be followed by getting the other characters' battle models on the field and walking around, AND THEN, once we're satisfied that the current modifications are working properly, we'll be able to focus on improving the existing models and animations.

there are alot of improvements you can make for pc versions but then somebody should put together a package with everything in it,

I agree that that would be a good idea, but I think right now it might be best to wait until we've gotten things a bit more polished and sorted out, as well as permission from each of the different authors of the different patches and mods to bundle everything together -- and that's not even considering what type of delievery system to wrap it all up in, that won't require third-party utilities such as Ficedula's "LGPTools" program to install them.

...like rip the movie from psx and put in pc, thats a good idea, makes it less pixelated and stuff,

Unfortunately, that won't work.  The movies (with the exception of the Eidos logo, obviously) already provided in the PC version are already direct conversions from the PSX version, right down to the base resolution of the video, if I remember correctly.  The only things Square changed before converting them is that they added the PSX version's music to the opening and ending movies as a direct audio component.

The relative ugliness of the PC movies is due to 3 things:

1.) The limitation of 16-bit color depth is causing major dithering to take place.  If someone can get that 32-bit color patch to work without messing up the game in any way, we could get PSX-like color quality from the movies.

2.) As you probably know, taking a 320x240 res movie and stretching it to full screen at 640x480 can result in some major pixelation.  Now, that might not be so bad, except...

3.) The FF7 engine is not even trying to do any sort of video filtering AT ALL.

On top of all that, FF7 can only use the "Duck Truemotion" codec to read the movies.  Compressing them with a better codec or something will only result in FF7 refusing to read them.  So, if you were to rip the PSX movies and encode them so that FF7 can play them, you'd wind up back where you started.

Until it's possible to mod the engine to run in 32-bit color or apply image filtering to movies, using the PSX movies are a moot point.

[EmperorSteele]

Actually..

You're wrong about the vidoes.  At least, as far as i can tell, there's a noticable difference between the psx and pc versions of the videos, especially in-game.  I'll make some comparative screenshots when i can be arsed =)  (it's most noticable in fmvs where theres a lot of black.. the psx movies render black, the pc renders -really dark- green and red splotches.)

And yay, gamfaqs loves me ^_^

[Radiosity]

Does anyone actually have the TM20 codec for download? I can't find it anywhere. Google turned up a mere 6 pages, all of which linked to Duck.com, who no longer support that codec.

[Aaron]

I'll make some comparative screenshots when i can be arsed =) (it's most noticable in fmvs where theres a lot of black.. the psx movies render black, the pc renders -really dark- green and red splotches.)

The PC version renders a lot of little sploches and grey blocks, but the videos look way better if you play them in Windows Media Player.  Part of the problem is FF7 not doing any filtering / using 16-bit color.  I'm afraid even if you got the PSX movies encoded right, FF7PC would crap them up.

Does anyone actually have the TM20 codec for download? I can't find it anywhere. Google turned up a mere 6 pages, all of which linked to Duck.com, who no longer support that codec.

TrueMotion Compression Toolkit -- haven't tried it myself, but closest thing you'll probably find.

[Borde]

About the videos, they can actually be changed for whatever you want. I use the PSX videos compressed in divx 3.11 and they work well (and yes, I think they look a bit better than the original PC version videos and sound much better).
About the TM20 codec, I think it's restricted so that you can't compress using it (or so it says VirtualDub). I haven't found any version of the codec which let's you compress.
Anyway, I think this codec is crap. It behaves in a strange way when rendering stretched videos. Why can't they just look like in their original resolution? It's as if it was filtering it using diethering but in a very deficient way. At least divx doesn't try doing such things and I think that's better this way.

[Goku7]

From what I understand, the company allowed Square to bundle a type of consumer-use-only version of their codec that can only decompress the info but not compress it.  I have no clue how they did that, but I think there might be older "developer" version floating out there on the internet that can do both encoding and decoding.

At any rate, I think one thing we can all agree on is that the movie-playing code of the FF7 engine needs an overhaul.

[Radiosity]

Thanks Aaron, I'll give that a try.