Information Shinra - Attempting to make sense of FF7's English translation

[Amadeus]

By now, we've gotten official retranslations of many classic RPGs; other than a few minor corrections on the PC Version, FF7's spotty translation has never gotten such a treatment, and it definitely needs it. Although my translation skills are highly rudimentary and I rely heavily on Jeffrey's Online Japanese Dictionary, I've been trying my hand at some of the more cryptic translations in the game. I've also listed a few that make more sense when you read Cathy Okada's old-but-excellent translations of certain key scenes, which you can find at FF7citadel.com. Her translations are astoundingly accurate when you remember that the US version hadn't even been released yet. So here I go, any help from more able translators would be greatly appreciated.

Note: I haven't included such mistakes as "This guy are sick", which are simple grammatical errors. It's still clear what they were trying to say.

Hojo: The mother is strong, yet has her weaknesses.

This line, delivered by Hojo during a meeting of the Shinra brass as they discuss using Aeris to find the Promised Land, has always bothered me. I wondered if it was a case of using the wrong tense, since Ifalna, Aeris' mother, is long dead at this point. Here's the line in the original Japanese:

母は強く……そして弱みを持つ

My best estimate: [Her] mother [particle: wa] stubborn...therefore weakness [particle] has.

I translated "強く" as "stubborn", rather than "strong". Also notice "そして", which means "therefore", not "but". It's a cause-and-effect relationship. Does he mean "Her mother was stubborn, so she'll have the same weakness"? At the time, they were talking about crossing Aeris and Red XIII to produce a sample capable of withstanding long-term research. Something along the lines of "if she is as stubborn as her mother, she'll be useful"? Like I said, I'm not the best translator. Any help?

"Right this way poo....I mean, sir."

Spoken by the bee girl that shows you to a room in the Honey Bee Inn. This confused me for a while, and she says the same thing in the Japanese version. As best as I can figure, she was going to say "pooch", a nickname given to Cloud by one of the girls in the makeup room. I suppose because he looks like a lost puppy. It makes as much sense as anything else in that scene.

Aeris: Sorry, bad timing on my part
It's not so much this line that confuses me, as what Aeris is laughing at in this scene. Cloud falls through the roof, they talk, Cloud says he's a jack-of-all-trades, then Aeris starts giggling for no readily apparent reason. Here's the scene in Japanese, if it helps.

クラウド
「俺はクラウドだ」
「仕事は……
　仕事は『なんでも屋』だ」

エアリス
「はぁ……なんでも屋さん」

クラウド
「なんでもやるのさ」

Presumably I'm missing something here. The scene seems to read about the same in English and Japanese.

Reeve: Not the President, to Sister Ray!
  Scarlett: Reeve, you talk funny!

This didn't make much sense to me until I read Cathy Okada's translation. As she explains, Reeve himself speaks in a formal dialect, whereas he uses a less-formal one when speaking through Cait Sith. It seems like they <I>tried</I> to reflect this in the English version by having Cait Sith occasionally speak in a sort of southern accent (I'm not even taking the Scottish accent he had in Advent Children into account), but because of the inconsistency of that translation, he only does this once in a while. On that scene on the Highwind when WEAPON is attacking Midgar, Barrett and the others realize Caith Sith is really Reeve because, in the chaos of the moment, Reeve slips and speaks like Caith Sith to Scarlett/like Reeve to Barrett. This didn't translate at all in the English version, which is a shame because it's pretty funny.

Received Tincture (Fort Condor battle reward)/Last Elixer!(Great Glacier)

It's obvious which items these are meant to be, although I think it's interesting that the translators were considering using Ted Woolsey's translation for Ether (see FF3us). These messages, along with many other inconsistencies in the translation, have me convinced that the English script was worked on in fits and starts by different teams who didn't talk to each other.

More to come next post.   

[ff7rules]

Yeah, glad someone brought this up as im aiming to have all these fixed for my PSX patch so this will be a great help to me. There's so many mistranslations in ff7 it really shouldn't have been released untill they were ironed out like "this guy are sick" thats just terrible. Also don't know if you noticed but theres also the fact of Aeris (Aeriths) name. In Crisis Core she is called Aerith. So why did they decide to change it you would think they would cover there mistake? I can't bring myself to call her Aerith i don't know why it just doesn't sound right.

[Amadeus]

The Aeris - Aerith debate will probably rage forever. Personally, I think Aeris sounds better, even though it seems Aerith is the "official" translation. Aerith sounds too much like you're thpeaking with a lithsp.

That said, I'd prefer if this thread didn't just become an Aeris vs. Aerith argument; there are far worse things to be fixed about the translation. =P

[Amadeus]

The Mysterious "Highblow ST"

An unused bit of text refers to an item called "Highblow ST", which doesn't seem to exist in the game. It actually does; this is what Vincent's Supershot ST is called in the Japanese version (although I think it's supposed t  be Highbrow ST). This line of text was probably removed once they decided on the name change. See, sometimes they do try to get it right!

Other Item Oddities

-Red's "Spring Gun Clip" is supposed to be a "Spriggan Clip".

-Not a mistranslation so much as an unfortunate omission: The full name of Cid's "Scimitar" in the original was "Seiryuu Scimitar" - Seiryuu as you may know is one of the four suu-ling in Chinese astrology; he is the Blue Dragon representing the direction East and the season of Spring. The suu-ling (Seiryuu, Byakko, Genbu, and Suzaku) are frequently referenced in JRPGs/Anime, including the original SaGa/Final Fantasy Legend and Fushuugi Yuugi.

-The "Touph Ring" / "Tough Ring" gaffe hardly needs to be mentioned. Ditto "Fourth Bracelet"/ "Force Bracelet".

-Again, not translation errors, but I've always been curious as to what an "Edincoat" is, or a "Ziedrich".

[Amadeus]

I just went over the dialogue for the scene where your party first meets Vincent. This was a prime example of how the shaky translation made an already confusing plot all the more puzzling:

After Cloud updates Vincent on the Sephiroth situation...

Vincent: Sephiroth knows he was created five years ago? And about the Jenova Project?

This makes no sense, as Sephiroth was definitely not created five years before. Even if we're still under the mistaken impression that Sephiroth was artificially produced, Cloud had been a fan of Sephiroth's since he was nine years old. And Vincent knows all to well the truth about Sephiroth's origins.

What he originally says is something along the lines of,

Vincent: Sephiroth learned the secret of his birth five years ago? About the Jenova Project?

This makes more sense. Five years ago wasn't went Sephiroth was born, it was when he discovered the "truth" about his creation and went crazy.

Vincent mentions Lucrecia, Sephiroth's mother. Cloud reacts by saying he thought Jenova was Sephiroth's mother. Vincent replies,

Vincent: That's not entirely incorrect, but it's just a theory.

Bzzzt! It seems like they confused "theory" and "metaphor".

それは……間違いではないがひとつのたとえなのだ

The best I can make of this is:

"That is...not entirely incorrect, metaphorically speaking."

It's not a theory; Vincent knows exactly where Sephiroth came from.

[JordieBo]

Wow, I didn't realise how bad the translation actually is! 
Anything I can help with? My Japanese is VERY limited but I can figure out how sentances should be structured, also I know Final Fantasy VII and it's spin-off's very well, so I could help out a tad.

[koral]

This is really interesting, and to think the game has been out for all these years!
Thankyou for looking into this Amadeus 

[Marc]

You should try to contact Berri (jack.o.lantern) or Tsetra.  They've intimate knowledge of the game's dialogue mechanic.

And Berri is also translating lost bits from the Japanese version.

She might be able to help you out.

[jadeorade]

 

Aeris: Sorry, bad timing on my part
It's not so much this line that confuses me, as what Aeris is laughing at in this scene. Cloud falls through the roof, they talk, Cloud says he's a jack-of-all-trades, then Aeris starts giggling for no readily apparent reason. Here's the scene in Japanese, if it helps.

クラウド
「俺はクラウドだ」
「仕事は……
　仕事は『なんでも屋』だ」

エアリス
「はぁ……なんでも屋さん」

クラウド
「なんでもやるのさ」

Presumably I'm missing something here. The scene seems to read about the same in English and Japanese.

Oh! Oh! I got it. Well sort of. In Last Order, Zack says that he's going to become a jack-of-all-trades, and , of course, Cloud could be one with him. (Cloud was totally out of it) This is in the truck, like a minute before the ending....however I haven't the slightest clue as to why Aerith knows this...and, I dunno why she would say "bad timing" but, this is the only (slightly logical)l thing I can think of

[koral]

Have you played Crises Core?

Because in CC,
*SPOILER ALERT*
_{Zack had fallen through the Church roof too the first time she met him, and might have also claimed he was a jack-of-all-trades (although I can't remember).
It would explain why Aeris was giggling, recalling the coincidental similarity of what had happened last time someone fell through the roof.}
*SPOILER ALERT*

[Amadeus]

Have you played Crises Core?

Because in CC,
*SPOILER ALERT*
_{Zack had fallen through the Church roof too the first time she met him, and might have also claimed he was a jack-of-all-trades (although I can't remember).
It would explain why Aeris was giggling, recalling the coincidental similarity of what had happened last time someone fell through the roof.}
*SPOILER ALERT*

See, I suspected that too. But that brings up the question of whether the creators had that in mind for Zack and Aeris' first encounter when the original FF7 was written. After all, Crisis Core came out over ten years afterward. Still, it does make sense. 

[DLPB_]

Sorry, when I wrote my original thread earlier, I had not seen this

I am trying to get hold of cathy and completely rewrite this game.

If anyone out there can help it is appreciated.

This game needs a top to bottom rewrite using loveless and I am happy to put in the massive hours to do it.....the problem...

I do not speak jap!

-----in order to retranslate the game, the following action will be needed:

1. slowly going through each scene 1 at a time, dialogue by dialogue. 

2.  Conversing about each and then finally, updated the actual text box

It will be tedious and slow but it must be done!


I am appalled by just how bad the translation  is!   I just cannot believe it!  I am probably the biggest fan of this game....I have gone into it in detail but I never thought about actually looking at translation until now and that is so weird, because the story is ff7's main point.  I assumed it couldnt have been that bad!  but HELL it IS!

Forget graphical updates, story comes first.

[nfitc1]

Hojo: The mother is strong, yet has her weaknesses.

This line, delivered by Hojo during a meeting of the Shinra brass as they discuss using Aeris to find the Promised Land, has always bothered me. I wondered if it was a case of using the wrong tense, since Ifalna, Aeris' mother, is long dead at this point. Here's the line in the original Japanese:

母は強く……そして弱みを持つ

My best estimate: [Her] mother [particle: wa] stubborn...therefore weakness [particle] has.

I translated "強く" as "stubborn", rather than "strong". Also notice "そして", which means "therefore", not "but". It's a cause-and-effect relationship. Does he mean "Her mother was stubborn, so she'll have the same weakness"? At the time, they were talking about crossing Aeris and Red XIII to produce a sample capable of withstanding long-term research. Something along the lines of "if she is as stubborn as her mother, she'll be useful"? Like I said, I'm not the best translator. Any help?

I'll draw your attention to jisho.org. That site has a VERY good Japanese-English dictionary (jisho is Japanese for dictionary). It has two translations for the å¼· kanji. I believe the one you're looking for is "resilient" as Hojo was talking about her surviving his experiments. So it's probably more likely "[Her] mother wasn't (since this is adjective is negative) resilient, thus [Aeris] has weaknesses."[/b] This more closely goes along with the "we're thinking of breeding her" line.

The line I most hate is Heidegger's: "He just sits in this building all day feeding his face. You call that a mayor?" This line sounds VERY unnatural with the "this building" in it. While this is likely what it says in Japanese, it doesn't work so well in English. Something more like this would be more natural: "He just sits in his office eating all day. How can you call him a mayor when his office is below ours?" or something like that.

The Mysterious "Highblow ST"

An unused bit of text refers to an item called "Highblow ST", which doesn't seem to exist in the game. It actually does; this is what Vincent's Supershot ST is called in the Japanese version (although I think it's supposed t  be Highbrow ST). This line of text was probably removed once they decided on the name change. See, sometimes they do try to get it right!

I'm doubting that it was ever supposed to be Highbrow ST as that would be ハイブロー ST (Highblow ST) vs　ハイブラウ ST (Highbrow ST). These words use different pronunciations of the "ow" sound between them.

Other Item Oddities

-Red's "Spring Gun Clip" is supposed to be a "Spriggan Clip".

-Not a mistranslation so much as an unfortunate omission: The full name of Cid's "Scimitar" in the original was "Seiryuu Scimitar" - Seiryuu as you may know is one of the four suu-ling in Chinese astrology; he is the Blue Dragon representing the direction East and the season of Spring. The suu-ling (Seiryuu, Byakko, Genbu, and Suzaku) are frequently referenced in JRPGs/Anime, including the original SaGa/Final Fantasy Legend and Fushuugi Yuugi.

-The "Touph Ring" / "Tough Ring" gaffe hardly needs to be mentioned. Ditto "Fourth Bracelet"/ "Force Bracelet".

-Again, not translation errors, but I've always been curious as to what an "Edincoat" is, or a "Ziedrich".

The whole "blue dragon scimitar" can be attributed to regionalization. How many casual gamers know what a Seiryuu is?

Yeah, I don't forgive the "Touph Ring/Fourth Bracelet" thing either. It's like they were trying to introduce a new "intentional mis-spelling" like the whole "Ogre Nix" thing if FFVI.

I see nothing about Edincoat or Ziedrich in anything other than FFVII so this one's probably just a "someone-thought-it-sounded-cool" thing.

I'd love to help with a re-translation, but I don't have access to the Japanese script.

[DLPB_]

There must be a japanese script out there....

[Amadeus]

There must be a japanese script out there....

I've been using this site, which seems to include the full script (may not include all the dialogue branches though):

http://rosquare.hp.infoseek.co.jp/ff7p-index.htm

Anyone still interested?

[Vehek]

Don't know about what happened here, do you?

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8395.0
He got a Japanese script eventually.

A lot of drama and arguing between Seifer and others about his projects...

[seifertemp]

Don't know about what happened here, do you?

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8395.0
He got a Japanese script eventually.

A lot of drama and arguing between Seifer and others about his projects...

It isn't important.  I am back temporarily for developers and the project has carried on at my own forum >

http://break-off.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=806


and yes we now have:

Japanese rip of actual map text
Japanese script via screen captures (provided by herman)

As well as english script and map text rip.

The project is going very well but is a huge task.

Translated:

Weapons, armours, accessories, places, characters, key items, enemy names, some enemy moves, materia and their attack names, summon moves,  limit breaks,

almost finished:

Items, chocobo food.

I think all none dialogue will be finished within the next 2 days.  The only thing which will be a problem is the enemy moves.   I have someone from another forum looking into this.

[titeguy3]

Hojo: The mother is strong, yet has her weaknesses.

This line, delivered by Hojo during a meeting of the Shinra brass as they discuss using Aeris to find the Promised Land, has always bothered me. I wondered if it was a case of using the wrong tense, since Ifalna, Aeris' mother, is long dead at this point. Here's the line in the original Japanese:

母は強く……そして弱みを持つ

My best estimate: [Her] mother [particle: wa] stubborn...therefore weakness [particle] has.

I translated "強く" as "stubborn", rather than "strong". Also notice "そして", which means "therefore", not "but". It's a cause-and-effect relationship. Does he mean "Her mother was stubborn, so she'll have the same weakness"? At the time, they were talking about crossing Aeris and Red XIII to produce a sample capable of withstanding long-term research. Something along the lines of "if she is as stubborn as her mother, she'll be useful"? Like I said, I'm not the best translator. Any help?

強く can be interpreted in quite a few ways, but there are many better words to describe "stubborn", so I highly doubt that was the initial intent of the word. Also, it's used in the adverbial sense... "The mother ____'d powerfully"

So it's probably more likely "[Her] mother wasn't (since this is adjective is negative

I'm afraid I don't see how it's negative. It's "tsuyoku" not "tsuyokunai", unless Amadeus didn't post the accurate original line. If it is negative, though, it'd certainly make a lot more sense as "The mother strongly.... and has weaknesses" doesn't really fit the bill.

My two cents are that this line makes as much sense in english as it does in Japanese. It's probably a case of Hojo being Hojo and rambling to himself (hence the dots). My impression is that Hojo isn't referring to Aerith or her mother when he says "Yowami wo motsu." I think he's referring to the experiment. A good translation would probably be something like

"It's mother would've endured...mumble..mumble...the plan will be hindered."

Aeris: Sorry, bad timing on my part
It's not so much this line that confuses me, as what Aeris is laughing at in this scene. Cloud falls through the roof, they talk, Cloud says he's a jack-of-all-trades, then Aeris starts giggling for no readily apparent reason. Here's the scene in Japanese, if it helps.

クラウド
「俺はクラウドだ」
「仕事は……
　仕事は『なんでも屋』だ」

エアリス
「はぁ……なんでも屋さん」

クラウド
「なんでもやるのさ」

Presumably I'm missing something here. The scene seems to read about the same in English and Japanese.

You're missing the important part of that scene!
right now the dialogue is:

Cloud:
"The name's Cloud."
"What I do is... I do a little bit of everything."
Aerith:
"Ahh...jack of all trades."
Cloud:
"I'll take any job."

The bad timing on my part line isn't even there. Although I haven't played Crisis Core, I think I'll buy that she's laughing at Cloud's resemblance to Zack.

-Red's "Spring Gun Clip" is supposed to be a "Spriggan Clip".

wtf is a 'spriggan'?? this? Really? It's either that or a reference to Chrono Cross, but did Chrono Cross even come out before FF7?

The Mysterious "Highblow ST"

An unused bit of text refers to an item called "Highblow ST", which doesn't seem to exist in the game. It actually does; this is what Vincent's Supershot ST is called in the Japanese version (although I think it's supposed t  be Highbrow ST). This line of text was probably removed once they decided on the name change. See, sometimes they do try to get it right!

I also doubt it was the Highbrow ST. (just cause that's a really stupid name) Terms like "Highblow" are common in japanese as kata phrases. I can see that it would have been changed to "Supershot" for the same reason "Force Eater" was changed to "Force Stealer".

I just went over the dialogue for the scene where your party first meets Vincent. This was a prime example of how the shaky translation made an already confusing plot all the more puzzling:

After Cloud updates Vincent on the Sephiroth situation...

Vincent: Sephiroth knows he was created five years ago? And about the Jenova Project?

This makes no sense, as Sephiroth was definitely not created five years before. Even if we're still under the mistaken impression that Sephiroth was artificially produced, Cloud had been a fan of Sephiroth's since he was nine years old. And Vincent knows all to well the truth about Sephiroth's origins.

What he originally says is something along the lines of,

Vincent: Sephiroth learned the secret of his birth five years ago? About the Jenova Project?

This makes more sense. Five years ago wasn't went Sephiroth was born, it was when he discovered the "truth" about his creation and went crazy.

Vincent mentions Lucrecia, Sephiroth's mother. Cloud reacts by saying he thought Jenova was Sephiroth's mother. Vincent replies,

Vincent: That's not entirely incorrect, but it's just a theory.

Bzzzt! It seems like they confused "theory" and "metaphor".

それは……間違いではないがひとつのたとえなのだ

The best I can make of this is:

"That is...not entirely incorrect, metaphorically speaking."

It's not a theory; Vincent knows exactly where Sephiroth came from.

The context in which I hear the term "tatoe" most often is in the expression "tatoeba" meaning "for example". Of course, translating this literally, since the "ba" is just an accented "wa" which is spelled "ha" (ha + accent -> ba), it means "the [tatoe] is..". putting "metaphor" here technically makes sense, but saying "The theory is..." can be used interchangeably with "For example..." alot better. So tatoe DOES mean theory. At least in that interpretation.

This is an accurate literal translation:
"Sore wa machigaidewanai ga, hitotsu no tatoe nanoda." --> "That is not a misunderstanding but, it's one theory."

FF7 translators got that one right (for a change).
As for the first one... you got me, without the original japanese text, it's impossible to say what was meant...your explanation makes sense, though.

I've been making small retranslations while playing through the game. Just a small part of my plans, though...

[seifertemp]

http://break-off.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=806

If you are interested in retranslation project and can speak japanese I hope you will sign up.  We are now working on dialogue.  Please look through this list of changes and sign up on my forum if you are interested!
--------------

The mother is strong, yet has her weaknesses is a poor line.  Remember that it is just an overhearing of a conversation:

What he means is that Aerith will be a strong mother and is to be bred with XIII, but has her weaknesses.  We discussed this and came up with the alternate line:

She will be a strong mother....yet she has her weaknesses...

The next line is

"They are talking about Aerith, right?
------------

Highbrow is what we used, it can be either, but highbrow can mean "to be elite".  Spriggan would be considered a silly name, it is a very small myth.  And others are all names on english words.  Highblow is possible but then again so is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highbrow

------------

spriggan is as you have shown in the link and is correct

-----------