Author Topic: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.  (Read 31222 times)

seifertemp

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Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« on: 2009-08-01 15:37:41 »
After we have finished 7, I will be turning my attention to 8.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/197343/6185

There seems to be quite a lot of mistakes there too, inc deliberate ones.  Luckily, the dialogue of the game seems to be very much improved in 8 and I don't forsee any need to redo that side of things, unless parts are flat out wrong.

But items, magic, etc  will certainly need looking at.

They also appear to have completely dumbed the game down and made it easier in some areas.
« Last Edit: 2009-08-01 16:00:39 by seifertemp »

Terid__K

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #1 on: 2009-08-01 16:04:55 »
Hmm... I kinda like the name "End of Heart" over "Lion Heart" for Squall's limit break. Makes more sense.

But yeah, the differences aren't that much.


seifertemp

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #2 on: 2009-08-01 16:11:17 »
Censorship also>

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gerogero

I really get sick of this shit....

guitar_dudester91

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #3 on: 2009-08-05 05:49:49 »
Holy shit here we go again......

Let's retranslate what I just said. Or maybe the entire forum. NO. I got it! Mario!!! and every other game from our childhood!!!!!

Or Sonic?

That would be Sonic (Actually Sonar Breaking Rodent) the Hedgehog ( Actually Fast Porcupine)

The Rodent/Fast Porcupine that runs so fast on TWO legs that he breaks the speed of sound.

That's a very well translated title. I wonder what else we can translate.....

seifertemp

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #4 on: 2009-08-05 15:26:55 »
ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ, Sonikku za Hejjihoggu

No porcupine there, I am afraid and マリオ is mario ;)
« Last Edit: 2009-08-05 15:53:59 by seifertemp »

obesebear

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #5 on: 2009-08-05 16:30:00 »
Holy sh*t here we go again......

Let's retranslate what I just said. Or maybe the entire forum. NO. I got it! Mario!!! and every other game from our childhood!!!!!

Or Sonic?

That would be Sonic (Actually Sonar Breaking Rodent) the Hedgehog ( Actually Fast Porcupine)

The Rodent/Fast Porcupine that runs so fast on TWO legs that he breaks the speed of sound.

That's a very well translated title. I wonder what else we can translate.....
Haha!  This actually made me laugh a little.

Seifer, can you give some examples of deliberate mistranslations?  I was never much of a fan of FF8, but I'm still kinda curious

Vehek

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #6 on: 2009-08-05 17:19:38 »
A few months ago, there was some argument at GameFAQs over whether Edea's speech at the parade was different in meaning or not.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=197343&topic=48710512

Prince Lex

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #7 on: 2009-08-05 18:23:45 »
Quote from: hakanakumono
Japanese ver translation (mine):

Rinoa: You're not nice!

Rinoa: Not nice!

USA ver:

Rinoa: You're mean!

Rinoa: MEANY!!!

This part makes me wonder. Not about anything HUGE plotwise, I just don't understand why this had to be changed. The "You're not nice!, Not nice!" I think has more effect emotionally if I saw that during that particular scene.

I agree that the dialogue needs translated but some things could remain as they are. A full retranslation of every name and item and monster isn't really as important as the dialogue, unless it interferes with progression.

I think (from that list earlier on) that "End of Heart" sounds cooler, but I like Lion Heart. Stuff like that just doesn't NEED to be changed right away. Just MHO.

seifertemp

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #8 on: 2009-08-06 02:50:55 »
It depends how it was intended to be delivered.  If it was supposed to be harsh then meany is wrong, but if it was supposed to be said half jokingly then it is as correct as anything else.

That is the problem....it is impossible to really know.  When you read japanese back it is just the literal side of it.  "you're not nice, not nice"  sounds a bit literal and lacks personality I suppose.

I would have to look at scene again and see what japanese speakers thought but I am guessing that line would be left alone.  There are prob much worse examples to be found in ff8 dialogue.

Prince Lex

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #9 on: 2009-08-06 03:42:47 »
That is the problem....it is impossible to really know.  When you read japanese back it is just the literal side of it.  "you're not nice, not nice"  sounds a bit literal and lacks personality I suppose.

Well, I quoted it from the gamefaqs thread linked in this thread a few hours ago by Vehek -

A few months ago, there was some argument at GameFAQs over whether Edea's speech at the parade was different in meaning or not.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=197343&topic=48710512

In which there are a few Japanese speakers/translators. I'm very aware of how difficult it is to translate Japanese. This line was translated as "You're not nice! Not Nice!" which I think, as I previously stated, has more of an impact than "MEANIE!" which makes Rinoa sound like a 5 year old child.

And also, I didn't mean that that particular piece of dialogue needed to be changed, I was using it as an example of how the effect of the dialogue has been changed just by that line - which could be considered correct by many.

The translation of Edea's speech is similar, as are Ultimecia's lines during the final battle in the game.

I'm not going to post it all because there's more information (and discussion) in that thread for anyone that wants to read it. It seems however, that when translated directly, the dialogue during the final battle refers to Ultimecia in the third person, about how she's reflecting on her childhood emotions. In the English version, it all says "Reflect on your childhood/emotions" blah blah blah... or something along those lines - it points nowhere near Ultimecia.

I've come to realise (from reading a post that explains just this in the previously linked thread) that the characters' dialogue when translated is ultimately a reflection of how the translator(s) perceive that character. One would translate it literally from Japanese, then say "Nah, they wouldn't say that" and give them a line as close to the original meaning as possible but ultimately convey how they feel the character should be.

Oh, and Squall doesn't actually say "Whatever" all the time, he says all different things. A few times he apparently awkwardly says "oh, sorry" which he says more than once. This kind of "mistake" is what irritates me because it completely changes the attitude the character is giving off. "Whatever" is completely indiffirent and cold, "I'm sorry" is the opposite.


Vehek

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #10 on: 2009-08-06 04:02:14 »
While they may be arbitrary or strange at times, name changes aren't necessarily "mistranslations". As I see it at the moment, a mistranslation is generally misinterpreting something you're translating.

guitar_dudester91

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #11 on: 2009-08-06 04:40:55 »
Now guys, I'm really not trying to offend anyone on here, so please don't take this the wrong way.

But is that all the better you can come up with to do in your freetime, is retranslate the nitpicks of a game that came out almost 10 years ago? I mean, again, not trying to be harsh or anything, but if it's not anything plotwise -

Not about anything HUGE plotwise,

Then why change it if it's based on interpretation? Or a literary basis?

It depends how it was intended to be delivered.  If it was supposed to be harsh then meany is wrong, but if it was supposed to be said half jokingly then it is as correct as anything else.

That is the problem....it is impossible to really know.  When you read japanese back it is just the literal side of it.  "you're not nice, not nice"  sounds a bit literal and lacks personality I suppose.

I would have to look at scene again and see what japanese speakers thought but I am guessing that line would be left alone.  There are prob much worse examples to be found in ff8 dialogue.

Sorry. I just really had a problem with Seifer Almasy a few months ago, and this just brings up the same situation. Sorry, again I'm not trying to offend anyone, just my two cents.

On a seperate note, anyone good with modding? In the tech related forum, I have a thread, if you guys could help me out there, I would very much appreciate it. Peace out  :-P

Prince Lex

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #12 on: 2009-08-06 04:53:19 »
Not about anything HUGE plotwise,
Then why change it if it's based on interpretation? Or a literary basis?

Because certain inflections in the dialogue matter in reference to the characters' personalities. If we've been given lines that don't actually represent what that character would say based on their personality, then it matters because the characters aren't sounding the way they should. Does that make sense?  :|

And I'll say this again, that particular line was just as a tiny example, which is why I added "Not about anything HUGE plotwise".

guitar_dudester91

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #13 on: 2009-08-06 04:56:52 »
Oh right, I knew you meant a little thing. Like i said, I'm not trying to offend anyone.

But....

But is that all the better you can come up with to do in your freetime, is retranslate the nitpicks of a game that came out almost 10 years ago?


Prince Lex

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #14 on: 2009-08-06 05:18:01 »
I know where you're coming from.

To be honest, my response to this is that I didn't see the point of translations either until I played through the translated FF6. And it was random. One day, I decided I wanted to play through FF6 again. So I went online to see if there were any mods. Lo and behold, I found the FF6 fan retranslation. It's pretty much an example of what a fan translation should be - I'd say it's pretty perfect. Once I played through that I realised how badly some of the dialogue had been translated in the FF series. It was like a double edged sword... I'd never really thought about it before I played through it, but now that I've noticed, the English translations are a little tainted for me.

In short simplicity - I'd actually rather play through FF7 and FF8 with a really good translation than updated models or movies or anything else.

And also, I'm bored and can't sleep. This is what I do when my friends are working during the week and I can't go out to a pub or club, and the American television season doesn't start again till September so I don't have any TV shows to download.

If you've only ever played through FF6 in US English, I recommend you try the retranslation. Google it, it makes the experience so much better.

Is that explanation enough for you?  :-P

obesebear

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #15 on: 2009-08-06 05:21:15 »
How's about a link to the translation, good sir.

Also, I spent quite a few days changing around flevel.lgp to remove the "press x to run" and added a few parts in the dialog so conversations would be smoother, it just makes for a more enjoyable game, as long as it's done right.

I had also uncovered some lines Johnny should have had outside of 7th Heaven... I'm not sure if it's ever used in game or not, but if someone can figure out how to implement them, that would be tits
« Last Edit: 2009-08-06 05:31:16 by obesebear »

Vehek

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #16 on: 2009-08-06 05:22:58 »
(To Prince Lex)
If you're talking about the RPGONE translation... I don't like the Sky Render/RPGONE translation  of FFVI very much. When I compared it to some partial (non-patch) translations by other people, I found that at times, it was just as inaccurate in meaning as the SNES translation.

Prince Lex

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #17 on: 2009-08-06 05:30:58 »

seifertemp

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #18 on: 2009-08-06 14:27:16 »
Well, I am not talking about dialogue in this particukar thread because I haven't seen the original and no japanese speaker I know has had a look at it, I am sure in time they will do and I will know then :)

But none dialogue, it is obvious they have mistranslated yet again.  Lion Heart is incorrect, there isn't any middle ground.  Sure you can choose to accept it but it is wrong.  Same with enemy names, they have guessed at some of them without translating them properly. (NORG seems to be incorrect as well)

It is these small things which would benefit from a retranslation, but they aren't going to change the main story.  Whether or not the dialogue itself needs a small tweak we will see.
« Last Edit: 2009-08-06 14:29:40 by seifertemp »

Covarr

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #19 on: 2009-08-06 16:38:43 »
The RPGONE translation of FFVI was crap. It was so damn literal that figures of speech were way mistranslated, and it was devoid of any personality beyond what was offered by the plot itself. And there was excessive swearing, in a way far untrue to the original Japanese version. Whenever they had a choice between two swears that would both be accurate literal translations, they chose the harsher, presumably to show how edgy they were and prove that they were uncensored (because either something is censored and has NO swearing or is uncensored and is LOADED with as much of the foulest swearing as possible; there is no middle ground).

The fan retranslation of Chrono Trigger suffers from some of the same problems; it's not as bad about adding unnecessary swearing, but it's overly literal, stilted, unnatural, and eliminates all the personality from the characters.

Prince Lex

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #20 on: 2009-08-06 16:45:51 »
*Says in small voice*

I liked it. *Sniff*

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #21 on: 2009-08-06 17:24:59 »
I'm not going to comment on fan translations of FFVI or Chrono Trigger (since I've only played them with the official translations), but I do think that over-literalness and unnatural turns of phrase plague anime fan subs, so it's something to watch out for. I've lived in England all my life and I can hardly recall any times I've heard someone say "it can't be helped" in the context it's usually heard in anime IRL, but this unusual expression is heard in fansubs all the time (presumably when the character says "shoganai"). That's just one example, but that kind of thing happens quite a lot. Sometimes it's better to go with the slightly less accurate translation if the more accurate one is something no-one would say.

inb4 someone tells me that my example is a pretty standard turn of phrase where they live...  :roll:

Jari

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #22 on: 2009-08-06 18:32:40 »
*Says in small voice*

I liked it. *Sniff*

Awwww...

Here.



Feel better? :-)


I'm not going to comment on fan translations of FFVI or Chrono Trigger (since I've only played them with the official translations), but I do think that over-literalness and unnatural turns of phrase plague anime fan subs, so it's something to watch out for.

^ This. It's the fucking bane of almost all fan made translations. For some reason hobbyists - many of them quite young, most likely - seem to think that for some bizarre reason more literal is better, nevermind that nobody would actually say anything like that, or that it disrupts the flow of text, or.... well, or many things.

I'm not even talking about mass naked child events, here.

seifertemp

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #23 on: 2009-08-06 21:01:47 »
What you doing on my thread asshole? 

Vehek

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Re: Final Fantasy 8 - Retranslation.
« Reply #24 on: 2009-08-06 21:02:21 »
Chrono Trigger's fan retranslation was meant for information. Making a patch out of it was an afterthought.
Some people apparently like the patch more than the original translation, but those are the minority.
« Last Edit: 2009-08-06 21:07:08 by Vehek »