Author Topic: Is this even possible?  (Read 4125 times)

jeffdamann

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Is this even possible?
« on: 2010-05-23 06:24:27 »
I got to thinking about my love for ff7 and all you modders out there and I was wondering...

Does anyone know what game engine was used for ff7?Or were those games even made like that back then?

I was thinking that maybe the game could be broken down into its pre-release, game engine form so that any editing could be done ALOT more smoothly, hell we could COMPLETELY redo the textures for the entire game and even change the way the textures are rendered and effects are applied.Why wait on square to do it? We could do it ourselves.I'm sure if we got to that point MORE than plenty of ppl will chip in and help and we could have the High-res stunning visuals we all want in ff7!

Just a thought...

Furzball

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Re: Is this even possible?
« Reply #1 on: 2010-05-23 07:30:02 »
It's not like Unreal Development kit where it would be simply putting the same engine into a new shell (By the gods did I just make a car mechanics reference to a game!?) Basically instead of the game being built around the engine, the engine is built around the game. Symbiotic in fact, so that if either is missing, the other half would be dead. At least from my point of view. Some of the more experienced members could give more detail. But I bet the answer will be the same....

...No.

jeffdamann

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Re: Is this even possible?
« Reply #2 on: 2010-05-23 07:39:36 »
Well I wan't meaning that we should get the engine and then go from there. I meant would it be possible to break the game down to developer state...Where everything could be tweaked and reprogrammed with no more difficulty than the developers had...

halkun

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Re: Is this even possible?
« Reply #3 on: 2010-05-23 12:23:25 »
The engine is made of of several modules that overwrite each other when they are loaded. The main "engine" is the kernel that manages multitasking, the loading of modules, and access to low level functions. There isn't a "bare" engine par se. Each module can be thought of as a small "meta program" with it's own psudo-engine inside it (Like chocobo race, or the field system)

And example. the .MNU files are not data. Those are actual PSX executable fragments that are loaded by the kernel and ran directly on the PSX CPU.

The whole system is a geared-up state machine, which acts on the data in the savemap. You can make a "template" for the game data I guess. A blank scene.bin, or an empty field file for example. But much of the game is hard-coded in the modules. That's why you hear us say "we have to edit the executable to do A, B and C" all the time. During development, each module could be ran alone with a "stub" kernel, so the field people and the battle people and the minigame people could all work independent of each other.

The PC version crammed the modules into a single hard-coded executable. When they made Parasite Eve (The next game that used the engine) The took the kernel and hard coded other modules for that game. It's why FF7 and FF8s field language is so massively different. The tore down the old field module and rewrote it. The Kernel was also updated to deal with movie overlays better. (That was perfected in 9)

FFX actually uses a modded version of the Vagrant Story engine.

Strangely enough, FF7 is actually based on the Xenogears engine. They forked early in development of each.

So to answer your question, the only way to get FF7 back into it's "developer state" is to have the C++ source code and write custom stub kernels for each module group.

You might as well rewrite the engine.
« Last Edit: 2010-05-23 12:28:39 by halkun »

nikfrozty

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Re: Is this even possible?
« Reply #4 on: 2010-05-23 12:27:14 »
Xenogears?? I've played it back then in my PSX. Can't remeber but was Xenogears made by SquareSoft too??

halkun

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Re: Is this even possible?
« Reply #5 on: 2010-05-24 00:28:20 »
I wish I didn't kill threads like this. I'm such a buzzkill.

This is the part where you are supposed to look at how marvelous the engine is put together on it's own merits and help up understand it better :)

It would be cool if we understood the boot sequence better, or if we could isolate the kernel. That would be just as cool and be in the same vein as what you are tying to accomplish
or even a memory map.... Wait... I may have a cool idea.

jeffdamann

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Re: Is this even possible?
« Reply #6 on: 2010-05-25 06:07:34 »
Yeah and very thorough explanation by the way, haikun. I knew all this information already but the way you presented it made it much more intuitave.
I will continue looking further into this. I'm coming up with a grand plan for ff7.How it turns out, who knows,but at least something will get done  :)