Author Topic: [FF7PC-98] The Reunion (OLD THREAD, SAVED FOR POSTERITY) (Read 1328549 times)

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1800 on:** 2013-07-08 09:54:09 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-08 09:52:14

Perhaps use another joypad as a template? Or... Use arrows of some kind?

Can't really find another joypad that actually has buttons of this sort (it's all the Gameboy type direction buttons or joysticks) but I think I can rig something up involving arrows while deviating enough from the original designs to not be confusing.

Oh, and did you want to go with the dark text inside or the light text inside?

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1801 on:** 2013-07-08 11:43:14 »

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1802 on:** 2013-07-08 14:36:53 »

Set 3 without a doubt. I only need that one though because I can just rotate. I'll see which of these look good in game. Thanks for all those! If anyone thinks they can do better, have a go. If not, I will use these. They look pretty damn good to me.

Covarr · « **Reply #1803 on:** 2013-07-08 15:24:10 »

I will point out that directional sets 3 and 4 are totally inaccurate to a PS controller. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as the PS controller's D-Pad is counter-intuitive unless you see it all together.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1804 on:** 2013-07-08 15:26:29 »

Yup, as he said before though, using the real direction graphic is confusing. I don't mind some lee way with the directional ones. How did ff7 psx do it?

Kaldarasha · « **Reply #1805 on:** 2013-07-08 15:44:18 »

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1806 on:** 2013-07-08 16:10:04 »

They didnt bother with them. Oh well. We will.

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1807 on:** 2013-07-08 22:10:43 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-08 15:26:29

Yup, as he said before though, using the real direction graphic is confusing. I don't mind some lee way with the directional ones. How did ff7 psx do it?

Exactly, they totally seem like they're pointing in the opposite direction on their own, so I did a 'mirrored' version that would be clearer and am just letting Dan pick whatever he likes best. XD

Oh, and I'm a she.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1808 on:** 2013-07-09 00:39:22 »

I see...

I will have to remember that.

Second revision is going well... The actual feel of the dialogue is coming together now too.

OLD
“This just in. An accident today…”{NEW}
“…the worst in the history of the metropolis.
   But thanks to the quick response
   by those in charge,
   there were no civilian casualties.”{NEW}
“The cause of the accident is still unclear at
   this time, however, according to some
   sources it is believed to have something to
   do with the terrorist
   group, AVALANCHE.”

NEW
“Continuing our coverage of today's events…{NEW}
“In spite of the worst incident in Midgar's history,
   no civilian casualties have been reported.
   Shin-Ra's city management are being credited
   for their quick response.”{NEW}
“The cause of the incident is still unclear.
However,we are getting reports that a statement
   has been released by the terrorist group
   Avalanche,claiming responsibility…”

=============

OLD
{TIFA}
“Oh! {CLOUD}!
    Your hair looks like a Chocobo!”

NEW
{TIFA}
“{CLOUD}! That's like stealing
   from your own! …After all,your
   head looks like a chocobo!”

511 of 690 maps done.

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1809 on:** 2013-07-09 10:55:48 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-09 00:39:22

511 of 690 maps done.

Wow, that's going really fast! Sweet!

nfitc1 · « **Reply #1810 on:** 2013-07-09 11:40:12 »

No longer treating Avalance as an acronym gets props in my book, but are you going to write in a part where the group explicitly tells someone they were involved or Shin-Ra lies about getting a message?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1811 on:** 2013-07-09 12:18:46 »

How do you mean? The report above is how it is in the original writing. It's just propaganda because Avalanche didn't have anything to do with the mechanical tower (d7 collapse). It was destroyed by Shin-Ra

The news report can't say a statement has been released because it has no proof of that. It's just making people believe Avalanche did it using weasel words, and blatantly lying about the death toll.

edit.

Edited above. I just remembered, the broadcast has nothing to do with Reactor 1 and 5. It's the District 7 collapse.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1812 on:** 2013-07-09 14:04:17 »

Another note. The word "soldier" will be treated in the same manner as the word "marine". If it is referring to a member of the organisation Soldier, it will be capitalised. Examples:

I am a Soldier (A member of Soldier)
I am a soldier (A generic soldier)

http://afterdeadline.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/when-every-letter-counts/
===============

One last comparison now. It didn't meed much changing from Luksy's localisation. I have added Luksy's notes for this map also. It's pretty clever how the piano clue works originally. "Without So La" in other words, missing 2 keys. And Sora also meaning sky, because the rays of sunshine don't reach the piano.

Old

Code: [Select]

Mansion, 1f.
------------------------------
“I must get rid of all those
	that stand in the way of my research. 
	Even that one from the Turks.”{NEW}
“I scientifically altered him 
	and put him to sleep in the basement.
	If you want to find him, search the area.”{NEW}
“But…this is merely a game I thought of.
	It is not necessary
	for you to participate
	if you don't want to.”{NEW}
“There seems to be another letter.”
{CHOICE}Read it
{CHOICE}Ignore it
------------------------------
“Move the dial on the safe carefully
	but quickly. You have 20 seconds.
	You can not go past the numbers while turning.
	The 4 hints for the numbers are…”{NEW}
{CHOICE}dial (1)
{CHOICE}dial (2)
{CHOICE}dial (3)
{CHOICE}
------------------------------
The lid of the box with the most oxygen.
------------------------------
Behind the Ivory's short of tea and ray.
------------------------------
The creek in the floor near the chair
on the second floor…
then to the left five steps, up nine steps,
left two steps, and up six steps.
------------------------------
The fourth row has been written in invisible ink…
Dial (4) is {GREEN} (Right 97)
------------------------------

Luksy

Code: [Select]

Shin-Ra Mansion,1F
------------------------------
Hojo's letter
"I must rid myself of all those
	who would interfere with my research. 
	That man from the Turks is no exception."{NEW}
"I have made some somatological improvements to
	his body, and put him to sleep in the basement.
	Look for him there if you are interested."{NEW}
"This is however nothing more than a
	capricious game I created.
	Do not feel obliged to take part."{NEW}
"There seems to be a second page."
{CHOICE}Read it
{CHOICE}Ignore it, we need to get going
------------------------------
“Move the dial on the safe carefully,
	but quickly. You have 20 seconds,
	do not exceed this time even by a little.
	The hints for the 4 dials are…”{NEW}
{CHOICE}Dial 1 hint
{CHOICE}Dial 2 hint
{CHOICE}Dial 3 hint
{CHOICE}
------------------------------
The lid of the box with the most oxygen.
------------------------------
Behind the gap in its black and white teeth.
<< impossible to translate, I've come up with something similar,
<< original reads "Behind the black and white without sky"
<< sky is 'sora' in japanese, in this case a play on words
< "behind the black and white without so and la"
------------------------------
From the creak in the floor next to the chair
on the second floor…
5 steps left, 9 up, 2 left, 6 up.
------------------------------
The fourth value is revealed…
Dial 4 is {GREEN}Right 97
------------------------------

New

Code: [Select]

Shin-Ra Mansion,1F
------------------------------
Hojo's Letter
‘I must rid myself of all those who would interfere
with my research. That man from the Turks is no
exception.{NEW}
I have made some somatological improvements
to his body,and put him to sleep in the basement.
Look for him there if you are interested.{NEW}
This is,however,nothing more than a capricious
game that I have created. Do not feel obliged to
take part.’{NEW}
“There seems to be a second page.”
{CHOICE}Read it
{CHOICE}Ignore it,we need to get going
------------------------------
‘Move the dial on the safe carefully,
but quickly. You have 20 seconds.
The hints for the 4 dials are…’{NEW}
{CHOICE}Dial 1
{CHOICE}Dial 2
{CHOICE}Dial 3
{CHOICE}
------------------------------
‘The lid of the box with the most oxygen.’
------------------------------
‘Between the gap in its black and white teeth.’
------------------------------
‘From the creak in the floor,
next to the chair…
5 steps left,9 steps up,
2 steps left,6 steps up.’
------------------------------
The fourth value is revealed…
‘Dial 4 is {GREEN}Right 97{WHITE}’
------------------------------

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1813 on:** 2013-07-10 00:56:10 »

Second revision completed. 692 of 692 maps checked and updated. Didn't take that long, did it (15 hours about)?

Next I have to play through the whole game and make my 3rd revision lmao. That starts tomorrow.

After that, send questions to Luksy, get those ironed out. Then send remaining Scottish dialogue to Prince Lex for him to update. Then, first major release will be ready.

It has taken a ridiculous amount of time... I want to strangle Square for not doing their job properly.

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1814 on:** 2013-07-10 02:28:05 »

Yay!

I'm making all my friends play it even the ones that never had interest in VII. XD

spy__dragon · « **Reply #1815 on:** 2013-07-10 08:35:43 »

Congratulations to all the team!
I hope to see the final result and we can prove it.

Other question, Will you use the videos of the version 2012 or others which were edited by you?

Regards.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1816 on:** 2013-07-10 08:41:13 »

I'll be using 2012 videos. The ending needed re-localising again anyway.

edit

Main play through has begun. 3rd and final revision from me now also places the windows properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYdqcPgfxDU

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1817 on:** 2013-07-10 12:55:45 »

EDIT:

The code for positioning boxes below is not how it should be. I will amend it at a later time.

I have to wait for Luksy. Need to know if he is implementing my idea for box positioning in ts. With the new idea, a graphical interface is not required since there would be 25 default box positions. I would just need to visually work out where I want them and then add it. This is how it would work:

Code: [Select]

I think the best way  is to have 5 default X positions, and 5 default Y positions. 
The calc would not be too hard the way I plan on doing it.  5 #a values and  5 #b values.
a would be x, and b would be y.  Normal #x and #y would still be absolute  pixels.

Ok so...

#a // X position
1:X= XOffset // Left
2:X= (screenwidth*0.25)-(boxwidth*0.5) 
3:X = (screenwidth*0.5)-(boxwidth*0.5) // Centre
4:X= (screenwidth*0.75)-(boxwidth*0.5)
5: X= Screenwidth-Boxwidth-Xoffset // Right

#b // Y position
1:Y= YOffset  // Top
2:Y= (screenheight*0.25)-(boxheight*0.5)
3:Y = (screenheight*0.5)-(boxheight*0.5) //Centre
4:Y= (screenheight*0.75)-(boxheight*0.5)
5: Y= ScreenHeight-Boxheight-Yoffset // Bottom


Therefore #ab 3 3  would place the window directly in the middle of the screen. 
The above total 25 locations may be good enough that people mostly wont need to
mess about with a GUI. These would instead be a very good guide as to where they
want each window.  It's very simple and it eliminates manually entering pixel perfect values
(which is impossible really without a GUI anyway).

Obviously large windows will fall below the X and Y or go above the Width and Height,
once calculations have been made.  When this happens, they should be set to the offset
(I guess the game already does that but if not on all sides, ts should.)

]

and in practice:

Code: [Select]

District 1,Station
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 2 2
Biggs
“Wow…
	You're from Soldier all right!”{NEW}
“But… one of theirs
	in a group like Avalanche…!?”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 4 2
Jessie
“…Soldier? They're the enemy…”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 4 2
Jessie
“Why would someone from
	Soldier join Avalanche?”
--------------------------------------------------
#abh 2 2 3
Biggs
“Hang on,Jessie,
	he quit Shin-Ra…
	He's with us now.”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 2 2
Biggs
“I didn't catch your name…”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 3 4
{CLOUD}
“…{CLOUD}.”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 2 2
Biggs
“{CLOUD},eh? I'm…”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 3 4
{CLOUD}
“I'm not interested in names.
	Once the job's done,I'm outta here.”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 5 4
“The hell you all doin'!?
	I told ya…
	Never move in a group!”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 5 4
“Our target's Mako Reactor 1.
	Meet up at the bridge in front of it.”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 4 1
“Ex-Soldier,huh?
	Don't trust ya!”
--------------------------------------------------
#ab 4 4
{BARRET}
“You can run by
	holdin' {PURPLE}[Cancel]{WHITE} with 
	the {PURPLE}[DIRECTIONS]{WHITE}. 
	Keep up with me!”
--------------------------------------------------

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1818 on:** 2013-07-10 22:21:26 »

Luksy isn't sure whether he will add that or not, and it isn't a perfect solution (even though it's a pretty damn good one!). The other possibility is for me to create a new tool. The new tool would report absolute X Y positions of the boxes in real time, and allow you to manually place them while you look at the actual in game screen. using Loveless or Makou is a gross waste of time, and flawed, because you cannot know character positions etc. It's impossible to place windows correctly.

I will attempt to make this new window positioning tool. So 3rd and final revision is on hold for now.

Xifanie · « **Reply #1819 on:** 2013-07-11 16:41:34 »

I was just wondering about the inconsistency of the commas in the game text you've been citing; it seems the majority of the commas have no space after them, but every 12th one or so does have a space following it. That's really my only criticism, and may be something you're aware of already.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1820 on:** 2013-07-11 16:44:05 »

Quote from: Xifanie on 2013-07-11 16:41:34

I was just wondering about the inconsistency of the commas in the game text you've been citing; it seems the majority of the commas have no space after them, but every 12th one or so does have a space following it. That's really my only criticism, and may be something you're aware of already.

It is, and the version released is grossly out of date and nowhere near completed. I wish I hadn't released it, because I keep getting numerous bug reports that are redundant. I don't need to manually change each one, at the end I can simply batch remove all spaces after commas. The reason I didn't with that version is because it was nowhere near completed. Only at the end do the commas need sorting.

Thanks for the bug report all the same. When the main release happens, I will be needing this kind of input.

EQ2Alyza · « **Reply #1821 on:** 2013-07-12 02:23:07 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-11 16:44:05

It is, and the version released is grossly out of date and nowhere near completed. I wish I hadn't released it, because I keep getting numerous bug reports that are redundant. I don't need to manually change each one, at the end I can simply batch remove all spaces after commas. The reason I didn't with that version is because it was nowhere near completed. Only at the end do the commas need sorting.

Thanks for the bug report all the same. When the main release happens, I will be needing this kind of input.

I know what you mean. My first YT video for Bootleg has your M05a release, and people can be pretty rude with their comments about it. They have no idea how much work is actually involved, so I find it a little disrespect to comment with such ignorance.

Good job, keep it up

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1822 on:** 2013-07-12 11:13:41 »

Yeah that was the main issue with releasing a beta translation.... I really should have thought it through. The dialogue released at the moment is so clunky, hasn't had a further 2 revisions, and a final 3rd to come (going through game).

The very start of the game has proved the most difficult part. All the exposition in there means character's are talking like they usually wouldn't. I think I have this about right now though. Slight accuracy has been dropped in places.

Quote

{BARRET}
“Yo! This yer first time in a reactor?”
--------------------------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Of course not. I was with the
   Shin-Ra Company,remember?”
--------------------------------------------------
{BARRET}
“The planet's full of Mako energy.
   People use it everyday.”{NEW}
“But they ain't gotta clue what it is…
   How 'bout you?”
--------------------------------------------------
{BARRET}
“All right,I'll tell ya!”{NEW}
“Mako's the lifeblood of our planet!
   An' Shin-Ra's suckin' it dry with
   all this weird junk!”
--------------------------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Oh,spare me the speeches.
   Let's just get this over with.”
--------------------------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Right! You come with
   me from now on!”

Compare that with the one released, if you will?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1823 on:** 2013-07-12 14:13:50 »

This first bit must have been looked at now 10 times... it's just so hard to get it to sound natural when there is so much exposition so fast... not to mention the original Japanese sounds clunky.

Code: [Select]

District 1,Station
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“Wow!
	You're from Soldier all right!”{NEW}
“…Hard to believe one of
	theirs has joined a group
	like Avalanche!”
--------------------------------------------------
Jessie
“…Soldier? But they're the enemy…”
--------------------------------------------------
Jessie
“What's he doing with us?”
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“Hang on,Jessie,he's
not in Soldier anymore.
He quit Shin-Ra.
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“I didn't catch your name…”
--------------------------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…{CLOUD}.”
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“{CLOUD},eh? I'm…”
--------------------------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'm not interested in names.
	Once this job's done,I'm outta here.”
--------------------------------------------------
“The hell you all doin'!?
I told ya… never move
in a group!”
--------------------------------------------------
“Our target's Mako Reactor 1.
We'll meet at the bridge in front.”
--------------------------------------------------
“Ex-Soldier,huh?
	Don't trust ya!”
--------------------------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You can run by holdin' {PURPLE}[Cancel]{WHITE}
	with the {PURPLE}[DIRECTIONS]{WHITE}. Keep up!”

That's about as good as I can make it. I've had to cheat in 3 places:

Quote

Jessie
“…Soldier? But they're the enemy…”

Japanese is more "Aren't they the enemy" which is just something Jessie would never say (because she knows who the enemy is... i mean, there'd be a problem wouldn't there if she didn't even know that hahaha) and sounds stupid.

Quote

“…Hard to believe one of
theirs has joined a group
like Avalanche!”

Japanese uses "joined an Anti-Shin-Ra group like Avalanche" The original English also missed this off because it sounds clunky. The Shin-Ra connection is made elsewhere anyway.

Quote

Jessie
“What's he doing with us in Avalanche?”
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“Hang on,Jessie,he's
not in Soldier anymore.
He quit Shin-Ra.

Japanese has extra line after "He's quit Shin-Ra" which is "He's with us now"
but that simply doesn't work. It also doesn't make mention of Solider here either.

“What's he doing with us in Avalanche?” < She knows he is with them. She's just said so.

“Hang on,Jessie,
he quit Shin-Ra.
He's with us now.”]

Looks wrong.

Compare to original and see how it doesn't read right:

Code: [Select]

Sector 1 Station
------------------------------
Biggs
“Wow! You used to be in SOLDIER, huh?
	…Not everyday ya find one
	in a group like AVALANCHE.”
------------------------------
Jessie
“SOLDIER? Aren't they the enemy?”
------------------------------
Jessie
“What's he doing with us in AVALANCHE?”
------------------------------
Biggs
“He WAS in SOLDIER, Jessie.”{NEW}
“But he quit and is with us now.”
------------------------------
Biggs
“I didn't catch your name…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…{CLOUD}.”
------------------------------
Biggs
“{CLOUD}, eh? I'm…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I don't care what your names are.
	Once this job's over…I'm outta here.”
------------------------------
“The hell you all doin'!?
	I thought I told you never to move
	in a group!”
------------------------------
“Our target's the North Mako Reactor.
	We'll meet on the bridge in front of it.”
------------------------------
“Ex-SOLDIER, huh?
	I don't trust ya!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Press the Directional buttons while
	pressing {PURPLE}[CANCEL]{WHITE}
	to run.”
------------------------------

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1824 on:** 2013-07-12 14:26:06 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-12 14:13:50

This first bit must have been looked at now 10 times... it's just so hard to get it to sound natural when there is so much exposition so fast... not to mention the original Japanese sounds clunky.

Code: [Select]
District 1,Station -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “Wow! You're from Soldier all right!”{NEW} “…Hard to believe one of theirs has joined a group like Avalanche!” -------------------------------------------------- Jessie “…Soldier? But they're the enemy…” -------------------------------------------------- Jessie “What's he doing with us in Avalanche?” -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “Hang on,Jessie, he quit Shin-Ra.” -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “I didn't catch your name…” -------------------------------------------------- {CLOUD} “…{CLOUD}.” -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “{CLOUD},eh? I'm…” -------------------------------------------------- {CLOUD} “I'm not interested in names. Once this job's done,I'm outta here.” -------------------------------------------------- “The hell you all doin'!? I told ya…! Never move in a group!” -------------------------------------------------- “Our target's Mako Reactor 1. Meet up at the bridge in front of it.” -------------------------------------------------- “Ex-Soldier,huh? Don't trust ya!” -------------------------------------------------- {BARRET} “You can run by holdin' {PURPLE}[Cancel]{WHITE} with the {PURPLE}[DIRECTIONS]{WHITE}. Keep up!”
That's about as good as I can make it. I've had to cheat in 3 places:

Japanese is more "Aren't they the enemy" which is just something Jessie would never say (because she knows who the enemy is... i mean, there'd be a problem wouldn't there if she didn't even know that hahaha) and sounds stupid.

Japanese uses "joined an Anti-Shin-Ra group like Avalanche" The original English also missed this off because it sounds clunky. The Shin-Ra connection is made elsewhere anyway.

Japanese has extra line after "He's quit Shin-Ra" which is "He's with us now"
but that simply doesn't work.

“What's he doing with us in Avalanche?” < She knows he is with them. She's just said so.

“Hang on,Jessie,
he quit Shin-Ra.
He's with us now.”

Looks wrong.

Hmm, the 'aren't they' makes a sort of sense to me, but it's really intonation based and when you don't have voice acting I think your fudge is a better solution. I think it's definitely one of those Japanese speech quirks (based on the anime I've watched, and since VII is a pop-culture thing the comparisons can be drawn even though you can't really compare anime to real Japan) and while the translation is a little fudged I think it's good on the localization front. People would probably get it, but playing it on the safe side is a good idea. The same actually goes for the repetitiveness and Jessie seeming a little out of it - it's a Japanese speech quirk (that I only ever see on female characters, actually!) and your localization choice is a good one.

Also, interesting to find out that Barrett's decision to go "WELL I'M GOING WITH YOU" feels as random in the original Japanese as in the English game. I always thought maybe it seemed to fit a little better instead of being blatantly ALSO NOW YOU HAVE TWO CHARACTERS. XD