[FF7PC-98] Beacause - FF7 Retranslation (Merged into Reunion, use that instead)

[UGerstl]

Thanks for showing me the link and for the hint. 

[sylandro]

I'm working on a project to retranslate the spanish version using touphScript, Menu Overhaul and the english FF7PC.

Given that you're working on a retranslation of the english version (and a very impressive one), I have a few questions: how did you access the japanese script? Does touphScript support dumping from the japanese PC version, or did it involve playing the game in japanese and taking notes?

[DLPB_]

At first we did both but now I and Luksy go through the game for localisation/trans.

However, we also compare japanese with the english dump.  We run through them map by map.  ts does support dumping of Japanese game and I have them all here dumped   The order of the text is not the same all the time though, this is not a ts issue... it's how they did it.

I will add a link here to the japanese text, dumped by Luksy, later after food.

[sylandro]

A link to the japanese dump will be invaluable for all future translations!

Thanks.

[DLPB_]

FF7 JAPANESE TEXT  is Here
----------



And now, a bit more comparison.  This map was fun to do because it required a little thinking about how to make the game work but keeping to the original translation as much as was feasible.  In the Japanese game, the password is 4 kanji symbols which make up a sentence.  A kanji is found in each of the 4 rooms.

In the western game, a letter spelling a 4 letter word is found instead.  In the original translation, however, the localiser opted to give simple 1 word passwords.  The 2 passwords that are not used, he simple made up (HOJO and ORBS).

I have tried to keep the original meanings in tact.  The Japanese passwords are:

“The password is?”
{CHOICE}(The mayor's the best!!)
{CHOICE}(Shin-Ra's the worst!!)
{CHOICE}(Mako's the best!!)
{CHOICE}(Mayor explosion!!)
{CHOICE}(Mako explosion!!)
{CHOICE}(Shin-Ra explosion!!)
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------

The original localisation passwords are:

“The password is?”
{CHOICE}BEST
{CHOICE}KING
{CHOICE}ORBS
{CHOICE}BOMB
{CHOICE}MAKO
{CHOICE}HOJO
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------

And so we come to the comparison

Original

Code: [Select]

Shinra Bldg. 62f.
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Urban Dev. Research Library
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Space Dev. Research Library
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Peace Preservation/
Weapon Dev. Research Library
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Scientific Research Library
------------------------------
Hart
“How do you do?”{NEW}
“This is the Midgar Mayor's Office.
Mayor Domino is in his office.”{NEW}
“I am the Deputy Mayor.
If you should have any questions
feel free to ask me…”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm?
Oh, and who might you be?”{NEW}
“You all must be those…ahem…
Me? I'm Domino, the Mayor of Midgar.”{NEW}
“Actually, I'm Mayor in name only.
The city and everything in it is really
run by Shinra, Inc.”{NEW}
“My only real job is watching over
Shinra's documents…”{NEW}
“Me! The Mayor!
A librarian!
Ohh…”{NEW}
“You want to get upstairs?
I tell you what, if you can guess the
password, I'll give you my keycard.”
------------------------------
“Yes, that's it.
Guess the password
and I'll give you my keycard!”{NEW}
“Get it on the first try
and I'll even throw in
a special item!”
------------------------------
Domino
“Got it?”{NEW}
“Then tell me.”
------------------------------
“So, what's the password?”
{CHOICE}BEST
{CHOICE}KING
{CHOICE}ORBS
{CHOICE}BOMB
{CHOICE}MAKO
{CHOICE}HOJO
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------
Domino
“Nope! You're ALL wrong!
It's a much better word than that!
Try again!”
------------------------------
Domino
“BEST!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
BEST!! I AM the best…ME!!
No matter what anyone else says,
you'd better believe it.”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“KING!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
KING!! President Shinra sucks!
I should be King of Midgar!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“BOMB!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
BOMB!! I'm so angry, I'm like
a walking time bomb waiting to explode!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“MAKO!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
MAKO! If I had a lot more of it,
I would be a real Mayor!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Received "Keycard 65"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Why would I do something
like this, you ask?”{NEW}
“Revenge, of course!
Shinra's been torturing me forever.”{NEW}
“That's why I was a little rough
on you all just now.
Now go up there and really
make them suffer.”{NEW}
“This ought to teach them!
Heh heh heh…”
------------------------------
Domino
“But my card will only get you
to the 65th floor.”{NEW}
“Can you believe how they treat me?
…ME! Like some common employee…”
------------------------------
Hart
“Did you speak with the Mayor?”{NEW}
“What?
A password?
Oh, I get it…”{NEW}
“He's got way too much time on his hands.
But you can't really blame him,
Everything in Midgar is controlled
by President Shinra.”{NEW}
“Maybe I can help you.”
------------------------------
Hart
“…I see.
Then, I guess that's that.”{NEW}
“Good luck
finding it on your own.”{NEW}
“If you decide you want help.
I'll just be right over here.
Ready to tell you anytime…”
------------------------------
“What can I do for you?”
{CHOICE}Give me the hint again
{CHOICE}Give me the next hint
{CHOICE}Uh, nothing
------------------------------
Hart
“Sure, sure.
All right.”{NEW}
“As a public servant,
it's my job to serve
the needs of the people.”{NEW}
“So here's a hint…”
------------------------------
“…for 500 gil.”
{CHOICE}Give him the money
{CHOICE}Forget it!
------------------------------
“…for 1000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Give him the money
{CHOICE}Forget it!
------------------------------
“…for 2000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Give him the money
{CHOICE}Forget it!
------------------------------
Hart
“What do you want to know?”
{CHOICE}HELP
{CHOICE}Forget it
------------------------------
Hart
“Hey now!
You're a bit short.”{NEW}
“No one works on credit nowadays…
not even stores in the slums.”
------------------------------
Hart
“Oh, my…well,
Thank you very much.”
------------------------------
“Now listen.
On this floor are four research libraries
for four different sections of Shinra, Inc….”{NEW}
“Parts of the password are hidden
in each of the libraries.”{NEW}
“Pay careful attention to the files
in each room.”{NEW}
“The name of each library is written
on the plaque outside the door.”
------------------------------
“Now, in each library will be one file
mixed in from another library.”{NEW}
“Look carefully at the numbers
on each file.”
------------------------------
“There is a number at the beginning
of each file name.”{NEW}
“Look at the number on
the files that don't belong
in that library.”{NEW}
“Match the number with the letters
in the title of the file.”{NEW}
“If the file starts with a 4,
then check the fourth letter and…
well, you get the idea.”
------------------------------
Hart
“If you run into President Shinra,
please don't tell him about this.”{NEW}
“I can't be a partner to
anymore trouble for Shinra.”
------------------------------
“I never thought you'd
get it on the first try…”{NEW}
“Just goes to show you can't
judge a book by its cover.
Oh well, a promise is a promise.
Take this, too.”
------------------------------
Received "Elemental" Materia!
------------------------------
Domino
“What…full already?
Come back again when it's empty.”
------------------------------
Received "Elixir"!
------------------------------
Received "Ether"!
------------------------------
Received "Potion"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm.
It appears you're not completely stupid.”{NEW}
“Fine then, take this.”
------------------------------
Domino
“I see…
For you…this might be best.”{NEW}
“Then,
this is for all of you.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hoo boy! You finally got it?”{NEW}
“You all really don't use
your heads much, do you?”{NEW}
“……What the hey.
Here, just take it anyway.”
------------------------------
Trans

Code: [Select]

Shin-Ra Bldg. 62F
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Company Archives
     Urban Development
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Company Archives
         Space Program
------------------------------
          Shin-Ra Company Archives
Public Order and Weapons Department
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Company Archives
     Science Department
------------------------------
Hut
“Oh,how do you do?”{NEW}
“This is the Office of
the mayor of Midgar.
Mayor Domino is inside.”{NEW}
“Incidentally,
I am the mayor's assistant.
Should you have any queries,
please do run them by me…”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm?
And you are?”{NEW}
“Ah,you must be that infamous…
Me? I'm Domino,Mayor of
the Mako city,Midgar.”{NEW}
“Actually,I'm Mayor in name only.
The truth is Shin-Ra owns
and runs everything in Midgar.”{NEW}
“My job right now is
managing Shin-Ra's archives…”{NEW}
“Me! The Mayor of Midgar…
managing Shin-Ra's archives!
Sigh…”{NEW}
“You want to go further up,right?
Fine by me,
I'll even give you my Keycard.”{NEW}
“On one condition…
Tell me the password.”
------------------------------
“Yes,give me the password
and you'll get the card.”{NEW}
“And,if you get it in one go,
I'll even throw in a little something.
How does that sound?”
------------------------------
Domino
“You have the password?”{NEW}
“Then,let's hear it.”
------------------------------
“The password is…”
{CHOICE}The mayor is the BEST
{CHOICE}Shinra is the PITS
{CHOICE}Mako is COOL
{CHOICE}The mayor is a BOMB
{CHOICE}Blow the MAKO
{CHOICE}Shin-Ra goes BOOM
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------
Domino
“Nope! Completely wrong!
It's much better than that!
Try again!”
------------------------------
Domino
“The mayor is the best!!”
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
The mayor of Midgar is the best!
No matter what anyone says! THE Best!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Shinra is the pits!!
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
President Shinra is the pits!
I am the master of Midgar!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“The mayor is a bomb!!”
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
My anger is at its limit!
I may explode at any minute!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Blow the Mako!!”
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
We must destroy Mako energy!
Only then will I become a proper mayor!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Obtained "Keycard 65"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Why would I do something
like this,you ask?”{NEW}
“Isn't it obvious?
I'm toying with them.
Pissing them off.”{NEW}
Shin-Ra's been
tormenting me for ages.”{NEW}
“That's why I was a little rough
on you all just now.
Go on up there and
create some chaos.”{NEW}
“That ought to teach them!
Hee,hee,hee,hee,hee…”
------------------------------
Domino
“I should probably tell you this…
My card will only take you
as far as the 65th floor.”{NEW}
“Damn Shin-Ra,treating me…
ME! Like some regular employee…”
------------------------------
Hut
“Did you speak with the Mayor?”{NEW}
“Ehh?
A password?
Oh,I get it…”{NEW}
“He's got nothing better to do.
You see,President Shinra has
almost complete control of Midgar.”{NEW}
“Well,
if that's how it has to be,
then let me help you.”
------------------------------
Hut
“…is that so?
Then,I guess that's that.”{NEW}
“Good luck
finding it on your own.”{NEW}
“If you can't figure it out
come back anytime.
I'll be waiting here for you…”
------------------------------
“What can I do for you?”
{CHOICE}Give me that hint again
{CHOICE}Give me another hint
{CHOICE}Nothing
------------------------------
Hut
“Yes,certainly.
Certainly.”{NEW}
“As a public servant,
it's a joy to serve
the needs of the people.”{NEW}
“I'll gladly give you a hint…”
------------------------------
“…for 500 gil.”
{CHOICE}Pay up
{CHOICE}Don't screw with me!
------------------------------
“…for 1000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Pay up
{CHOICE}Don't screw with me!
------------------------------
“…for 2000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Pay up
{CHOICE}Don't screw with me!
------------------------------
Hut
“I'll answer any queries.”
{CHOICE}Help me
{CHOICE}I don't need your help
------------------------------
Hut
“Oh dear!
Are you a bit short?”{NEW}
“I'm afraid no one works by credit these days…
not even stores in the slums…”
------------------------------
Hut
“Oh,my… well,
thank you very much.”
------------------------------
“Listen carefully.
This floor holds archives of the Shin-Ra
Company's four main departments.”{NEW}
“Parts of the password are hidden
in each of the archive rooms.”{NEW}
“Try having a gooood look
at the documents in each room.”{NEW}
“The department names are written
on a plaque next to the door.”
------------------------------
“Ready? Okay.
In each room there should be a
misplaced document that belongs
in one of the other rooms.”{NEW}
“If you look at the document's
number and its name…”
------------------------------
“Pay attention.
Every document has a number.”{NEW}
“When you find a document
that's in the wrong room,
look at its corresponding number.”{NEW}
“If the number is,let's say four…
take a look at the fourth
letter in the title and…
Well,you get the idea?”
------------------------------
Hut
“If you happen to run into President Shinra,
please don't mention me.”{NEW}
“If I get bullied by Shin-Ra
one more time there'll be hell to pay.”
------------------------------
Domino
“And on the first attempt…”{NEW}
“Just goes to show you can't
judge a book by its cover.
Oh well,a promise is a promise.
Here,take this as well.”
------------------------------
Obtained "Attribute" Materia!
------------------------------
Domino
“What,fully loaded? Already?
Well,come back when you can hold it.”
------------------------------
Obtained "Elixir"!
------------------------------
Obtained "Ether"!
------------------------------
Obtained "Potion"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm,looks like you have
your head screwed on.”{NEW}
“Fine,
take this.”
------------------------------
Domino
“I see…
Well,if that's as good as you get,
I'd say this is what you deserve.  Here.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hoo boy! You got it at last…”{NEW}
“I guess not all of the
lights are on upstairs,eh?”{NEW}
“……Well,what the hey.
Take this.”
------------------------------



[luksy]

I actually dumped the Japanese text with a small subset of touphScript, ts doesn't actually support Japanese for now, I may add it in later if necessary.

[DLPB_]

Just a note.  Metal Knuckle will show as Metal Knuckl in R002.  Fixed for R003. I have no idea how I ended up losing a letter in the text file.

[DLPB_]

And remember R002 is now released with menu Overhaul M005 .

[spy__dragon]

Hi, I have a question about the joke or word game.

I don't understand what it means. Only thing I understand is that it forms a whole sentence instead of a word, but I don't know what word, sorry my bad interpretation.

And other thing, I am working with Sylandro with the retranslation, but we use your retranslation if you don't mind because there are best and magics,(Of course you all are in the credits).
I have seen the post that you haven't finished the retranslation the dialogues, as I am translating the dialogues, I can say what failures there are and comment, if you do not mind, of course.

Greetings!

[Bosola]

"The password is the mayor is the BEST"? That doesn't sound right.

[knightsoftheround]

First of all, I LOVE YOU FOREVER FOR THIS. I have a friend who loves the game after being told about it, but doesn't want to play it because... yeah. Plus, if S-E ever remakes VII, they'll probably change things to fit their retcons - I totally respect that decision, I don't dislike the Compendium, but I really would like this game in as close to the original format as I can get!

That being said, I read the messge from Luksy and I was hoping I could maybe get some things cleared up in my mind? I'm gonna quote the exact things that are throwing me (without using the quote system):

1. "Some errors slightly alter the plot; one or two, severely.  Some errors have been adopted as canon by SE, and some have been modified in later media."
2. "Any error that has been adopted as canon does not preclude it from being changed due to the reasons in the first list."
3. NOT "A literal retranslation from the Japanese (aside from certain names and items etc as mentioned above).  "

So I'm curious just how the changes are going to be handled? What it SEEMS to be is a retranslation to stay true to the original INTENT of the game, regardless of later retcons, to the best of the ability of the translators who have no ability to contact the original writers to doublecheck translations. Is that pretty much the case?

You guys have all my respect, btw!

[luksy]

I think this (rather long) back and forward explains most of the theory behind what we're doing.

a tl;dr would be something like:

Non-dialogue is as close as possible to the Japanese and completely ignores later canon (if incorrect, e.g. Zack->Zax), and is where you'll see the most obvious differences;
dialogue is a more of a hybrid between DLPB's and the original localization, while fixing mistakes in the translation itself at the same time.

[knightsoftheround]

I actually read the entire thing, and looking at the debate back and forth I think you're making what I've been hoping for in a re-translation. The "ignore canon" thing actually really pleases me given some of my misgivings about choices S-E has made, as does the evidence Barret is going to talk like a normal person finally!

It also looks like you're going to fix plot/character changing localization choices, which is amazing! Maybe I won't have to spend several years trying to puzzle through the plot this time! XD

tl;dr I've got some slight misgivings about a few aspects that I won't be sure on my stance about until I see them in action, but overall this mod looks really nice and I'll definitely be using it once you get the full release done! It is very possible your mod may become my new canon for fanworks. XD

(I really hope that wasn't empty praise...)

[luksy]

tl;dr I've got some slight misgivings about a few aspects that I won't be sure on my stance about until I see them in action, but overall this mod looks really nice and I'll definitely be using it once you get the full release done! It is very possible your mod may become my new canon for fanworks. XD

It'd be better if you bring it up sooner rather than later if possible, if we're wrong about something it's easier to fix things while we're still in the middle of it, the amount of text is about the same as your average novel, and merely the thought of going through it again makes me want to shoot myself.

[knightsoftheround]

Aha, most of it has to do with things you've decided upon in regards to not translating from the Japanese game and a bit of original bias on my part (I used to be rabid anti-dub, I've thankfully matured past that.) Most of my uncertainty was covered in the discussions you had, and its really just a stance on things. I'm slightly hesitant about the not being a translation from the Japanese dialogue, but honestly that was never your intent!

I guess I did have a few slight ideas in regards to the translations, though. Centered around the Blitz Ball and Ashes to Ashes retranslations.

I think you chose Blitz based on the German for lightning. But if the Japanese is literally "Lightning Attack Ball" I think that maybe "Blitzkrieg" would be better. It apparently means "lightning war" according to Wikipedia, making Blitzkrieg Ball mean Lightning War Ball. I personally feel it echoes the "Lightning Attack" thing better. Its really possible you thought of that already, though! Here's the wikipedia page on blitzkrieg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg

With Yuffie's Doom of the Living, you chose Ashes to Ashes to fit the idiom, but I think Memento Mori might actually be a better fit? The only issue I'd see is that its latin, and I don't know how you'd feel about using that with Yuffie. Here's a really good link about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori

But yeah, overall, my misgivings are just silly worries that really have no grounding! I can't... even really define them better than what I've said already, sorry about that!

[DLPB_]

"The password is the mayor is the BEST"? That doesn't sound right.

I can change it to "Pass phrase".  The japanese is indeed a sentence.  In any case I cannot use single words for the password because then meaning is lost.  It is only an excuse for a minigame anyway.

@mugenginga  I feel Ashes to Ashes fits the idiom much better and will have meaning to a western audience that your preference does not.  Most people would not understand that latin meaning and clearly since the japanese understand japanese, the idiom translation should be in english. 

The move is not called lightning war, which is why I went with Blitz Ball.   The move is lit a ball of lightning that the dragon fires at you.

As for translation.  We are localising and translating as close to the original source material as possible. Even if they have now made the mistakes canon (i.e. Mideel).  However, the installer does allow you a degree of leniency.  I have allowed it so people can keep the canon character names with an option.  Same goes with Hi Potion, Phoenix Down, Ramuh and Megalixir.

 

[knightsoftheround]

@DLPB Yep, I can definitely see that. I just figured I'd mention them and let you do with it what you would!

Yeah, I've spent the last hour reading the whole thread, and those misgivings I talked about have pretty much vanished into thin air. I didn't realize you guys had direct comparisons up before, which is really all I wanted to see. I'm really liking the fixes/changes on Barrett!

Thanks so much for your hard work! Translating is really a pain, and I can be nitpicky, so I really hope I'm not coming across as unappreciative. I've told my friends about this and at least one of them intends on replaying VII with your mod even though he swore never to touch it again over issues with the original translation.

[DLPB_]

   Any things you think of are welcome, whether we use them or not

[LeonhartGR]

If there are any text files I could deal with the Greek "fan" translation and send them to you. I have a professional translator friend to help me too. Case is I'm not sure if Greek characters are recognizable by ff7...

[luksy]

The only ones in the standard charmap are µ Σ Π π ∆, you could make your own char sprites of course but it's not particularly easy.

[LeonhartGR]

The only ones in the standard charmap are µ Σ Π π ∆, you could make your own char sprites of course but it's not particularly easy.

The only thing I'm able to do is translate text files and send them and it would be fun for me and my friend. If there is any way to import Greek fonts... there are ready for example Arial Greek

[DLPB_]

You would have to do what I did, look at the files found in modpath and create place the characters on the texture, then edit window.bin values for the letter spacings (or wait until Luksy adds support for window.bin.txt 

[LeonhartGR]

You would have to do what I did, look at the files found in modpath and create place the characters on the texture, then edit window.bin values for the letter spacings (or wait until Luksy adds support for window.bin.txt 

Let me look into this so I learn how to. Thanks!

*I looked into mod path. Mine is DK. I can see pngs with characters but can't understand the procedure to create those in that particular format...

[DLPB_]

I don't have the time to explain it and teach anyone.  I learned myself, it is pretty simple with hex editor for window.bin (after extraction) and a PHOTO editing software for the textures.

Real time editing of values is possible by editing memory addresses around 0099ddaf

[PitBrat]

Leonhart,
Check out the character png's installed with Avalanche.  They're located in the textures folder.
Compare these old versions to the character textures created by DLPB.
He has truly put a tremendous amount of effort into making every pixel perfect.