[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994)

[Sega Chief]

I don't think that's a good idea; the save editor works off the default stat arcs so changing stats at all might reset them to those arcs. It's likely better if I just finalise an .EXE, but I'll need to do a balance run of Arrange + EXE before I can do that properly.

[lionheart82]

@segachief
1) i agree to leave steal and morph out of boss fights, i already had frustrations with reno, easiest boss so far just to morph him, dont want to imagine my frustrations if i had to morph a Weapon... -_O

It seems reno is somewhat harder now, thats good.

Rank Up:
2) i feel constrained by very few choices or stat choice that i dont need forced into other stats that i need. I feel it could be improved more, maybe give us individual stats choice of +5 and or +10? Instead of grouping several together. Like we have 30 sp to spend and we can choose 5 or 10 sp for any stat we want. Though that could lead to overstack of some stats i see now, but maybe there can be limits added, like 10 can be chosen one rank up and that stat cant be chosen next rank up. Or 2 next rank ups.
I myself dont want luck imposed, instead prefer to choose vit or dex etc

3) As for leaving it after midgar, how would we survive no rank up decision? Im sure you have something planned, but i feel comfortable with the current rank up system active feom the start.

4) And i like the idea of getting sp through random battles as well. In that case sps could be ie 1, 2, 3 and 5/10 could be reserved for bosses.

5) Also if possible there can simply be a notification system when we earn any sps to rank up? If its implementable i to this game...

6) But if more frequent sp gain is made, i feel that rank up check wouldnt be so tedious. Also you could remove the second message, or combine both of them together? It is irritating to have to see both messages wo rank up unnecessarily.

Sorry if I went overboard... Want to help with suggestions and contribute however I can.

[Yuffie1983]

@segachief i agree to leave steal and morph out of boss fights, i already had frustrations with reno, easiest boss so far just to morph him, dont want to imagine my frustrations if i had to morph a Weapon... -_O

It seems reno is somewhat harder now, thats good.

Rank Up: i feel constrained by very few choices or stat choice that i dont need forced into other stats that i need. I feel it could be improved more, maybe give us individual stats choice of +5 and or +10? Instead of grouping several together. Like we have 30 sp to spend and we can choose 5 or 10 sp for any stat we want. Though that could lead to overstack of some stats i see now, but maybe there can be limits added, like 10 can be chosen one rank up and that stat cant be chosen next rank up. Or 2 next rank ups.

If you are at the similar point to were I am at have you got Tifa Mythril Claw and Clouds Hardedge yet.

[lionheart82]

Yes yuffie i did and much more, still at shinra hq, it a treasure house of stealing and morphing! maybe even a little too much, i feel im getting spoiled with all the equipment i can loot here, but on the other hand i do have to WORK for it, so its not easy equipment upgrade or money selling loot.
On the other hand im very rarely or never getting drops and i suspect its because of previous two actions. Maybe it was even mentioned that stealing prevents drops iirc? Not sure...

[Sega Chief]

Rank Up: i feel constrained by very few choices or stat choice that i dont need forced into other stats that i need. I feel it could be improved more, maybe give us individual stats choice of +5 and or +10? Instead of grouping several together. Like we have 30 sp to spend and we can choose 5 or 10 sp for any stat we want. Though that could lead to overstack of some stats i see now, but maybe there can be limits added, like 10 can be chosen one rank up and that stat cant be chosen next rank up. Or 2 next rank ups.
I myself dont want luck imposed, instead prefer to choose vit or dex etc

As for leaving it after midgar, how would we survive no rank up decision? Im sure you have something planned, but i feel comfortable with the current rank up system active feom the start.

I've specced everything against a current progress party, so don't worry about not being able to keep up with enemies. It'll roughly be equivalent to how it is now. A lot of monsters from Cosmo onwards have had serious buffs compared to their 1.35 counterparts but, again, the player party matches that because they're being pushed faster on levels and Materia. I'm aiming to have you all 70+ on a normal run by the time you beat Hojo and hit Disc 3 so that you can jump straight into Disc 3 content from the get-go.

I did think about making it a direct transfer for sources where you just pick what you want instead of choosing between sets. Currently, the way it's set up in the 1.4 prototype is that the character gets +5 to every stat on each rank, then you pick one of four sets to bolster several stats further. I wrote down the possible max-stat combinations here:

http://pastebin.com/TxCw7xDb

Sorry it's a little rough, they were drafted up for reference rather than display; the stats on the left are the starting stats. Stats in the middle are the 'neutral' stats from the +5 gains only. And the stats on the right show the highest possible stats from using each of the four sets for that character (again, mind that this is a prototype). You'd also maybe combine sets; so four Set 1s, two Set 3s, and then two set 4s for instance which would be more of a mix. Every set contains either a Strength or Magic boost in it this time though, so that the character doesn't become too weak in offence.

Yes yuffie i did and much more, still at shinra hq, it a treasure house of stealing and morphing! maybe even a little too much, i feel im getting spoiled with all the equipment i can loot here, but on the other hand i do have to WORK for it, so its not easy equipment upgrade or money selling loot.
On the other hand im very rarely or never getting drops and i suspect its because of previous two actions. Maybe it was even mentioned that stealing prevents drops iirc? Not sure...

If you steal an item, you can't get the enemy's drop. You can still get the drop when Morphing though (drops are uncommon in 1.35 in any case).

[lionheart82]

Ok thx segachief i was slightly anxious on that. On the other hand im also anxious that im leveling too fast, and will reach lvl99 till end game, when sephiroth is almost unbeatable at least in original game.

Having 4 sets is already little better, multiple choices give us creativity and freedom to pick and choose, and that's really rewarding in nt mod.
Its fine even wo drops, being able to steal and morph all those strawberries in shinra hq is so much! O_o though it maybe in the line with the game difficulty since already on floor 67 or 68, after capturing, enemies are tougher so you are on point with scaling and joggling all that enemies equipment leveling stuff. Kudos!

Ps i wrote more than you quoted, just in case you missed, if notification system is possible for sp gains or rank up, it would be great.

[Sega Chief]

Ok thx segachief i was slightly anxious on that. On the other hand im also anxious that im leveling too fast, and will reach lvl99 till end game, when sephiroth is almost unbeatable at least in original game.

I dunno about that.

Ps i wrote more than you quoted, just in case you missed, if notification system is possible for sp gains or rank up, it would be great.

There are notifications for SP gain; as for rank up, you can check your progress to the next one from any save point using the new function (there's no need to visit the actual rank screen itself anymore).

[lionheart82]

Great!

Ummm, so how do i check rank up on world map, im at kalm now, now save points soon...?

Edit nevermind fort condor is here.
PS yuffie i just added you to my party!

[Mithrain]

http://pastebin.com/TxCw7xDb

str 33 -> 73 -> 153

Seems I'll be able to almost hit 255 str on Cloud in 1,4, hoo! Although I'll miss the STR/DEX/MAG "spec". :>
Will endgame be buffed with more damage/defense, to counter these basestat-gains, or will we be stronger than our 1.35 counterparts?

Anyway, will the .EXE thingy also be updated, or do we simply use the old one?

[eXistenZe]

It'll be more periodic than FFX's system; something that only happens once in a while. The two major problems with the current build is that there's no way to track SP directly and that the option is available from the get-go, even though it's not going to be of any use until a little later. The plan for 1.4 is to let SP be won from random encounters in addition to bosses and to only unlock the option itself after the party leaves Midgar. After that you'll only be visiting the screen now and then to give your team an upgrade.

We'll see if it pans out for the new build or not; if it doesn't then I'm not averse to just ditching it altogether. There is a lot to be said for the convenience of automatic stat gain, but I'm hoping that this system can get players more involved with how they build their team.

Can't you make the choices mandatory at the level up? Or give the points to rank up at each level up? Spending so much time without improving the chars seems so dull...

I'm gonna postpone my ff7 re-play until 1.4 is out then. Using 7th heaven with ff7_nt.exe, btw.

[lionheart82]

I agree to a degree with you, existenze, it is kinda drag to not get any stat boosts, and that's why segachief is working on getting sps from randoms. Hopefully it will be much better than now.

[eXistenZe]

Points from random battles will enable chars to reach the max stat limit very fast from farming (unless they severely decrease with level differences).

[lionheart82]

You're right on both points. Maybe if only certain enemies dropped them and only set amount of times at that?
It could prevent farming somewhat, especially if we knew how many times they dropped sps? Or they could drop them only of defeated certain way or certain number of times...

[Sega Chief]

Seems I'll be able to almost hit 255 str on Cloud in 1,4, hoo! Although I'll miss the STR/DEX/MAG "spec". :>
Will endgame be buffed with more damage/defense, to counter these basestat-gains, or will we be stronger than our 1.35 counterparts?

Anyway, will the .EXE thingy also be updated, or do we simply use the old one?

The .EXE will be reworked (again) with the Limits left much closer to their original base strength; I also added range modifiers to them which wasn't a great idea. And I'm in the process of redoing every single enemy and boss at the moment to be a better match for the player team.

Can't you make the choices mandatory at the level up? Or give the points to rank up at each level up? Spending so much time without improving the chars seems so dull...

I'm gonna postpone my ff7 re-play until 1.4 is out then. Using 7th heaven with ff7_nt.exe, btw.

The stat gain going through Midgar is actually pretty inconsequential in the default game, to the point where it could be considered invisible; I think you maybe see 40 damage from Cloud going to about 60-65 between Reactor 1 and the Midgar Escape depending on your level:
https://youtu.be/BVgL3yDdTZ0?t=15m11s

The Levels you gain aren't just for better HP/MP either; Level plays an important role in both types of damage formula so a Lv.21 character will hit harder than a Lv.11 character even with the exact same stats for instance. And because that rate of EXP is much higher in NT (you'll be approaching Lv.20-21 by the end of Midgar) you're going to see higher increases in your damage, combined with the higher stat bonuses on equipment you'll be picking up.

You're right on both points. Maybe if only certain enemies dropped them and only set amount of times at that?
It could prevent farming somewhat, especially if we knew how many times they dropped sps? Or they could drop them only of defeated certain way or certain number of times...

I've mentioned before (I think?) that SP from randoms is going to be limited by your Level. If any of your active party members exceed the Level of the enemy, then it won't give any SP (special low EXP monsters like Mandragora also don't give SP at all); this is to prevent accidentally over-farming it before you unlock the option. When you've got 100 (the max it can hold is 255), you can buy a Rank with it; you can also only buy 8 ranks per character. It'll be impossible to max out your stats.

[lionheart82]

Ah ok, yeah you probably did, thays good in preventing farming and letting us play the game for the game itself.
Some thoughts on innates. Som are pretty weird, or not so usefull imho, like cid getting lucky when near death or tifa upgrading when using sense? So practically cid will rarely upgrade and even when he does it will be luck? If im not missing something isnt luck just a dum stat? And even when I use sense its just once, twice a battle, so it's very small, rare upgrade, compared to barrets for example. How about changing it to steal or restore instead? Yuffies i like its logical, goes with her.

I just remembered i got mastered chocobo summon. Its nice not to have to bother to master it for longest time, but i feel on the other hand that it would be satisfying to just put few hundreds or a few thousands ap to master it. Like this it feels like i got ultimate weapon that i didnt work for, and since your mod is all about satisfaction you get when you earn something...

[Yuffie1983]

The .EXE will be reworked (again) with the Limits left much closer to their original base strength; I also added range modifiers to them which wasn't a great idea. And I'm in the process of redoing every single enemy and boss at the moment to be a better match for the player team.

The stat gain going through Midgar is actually pretty inconsequential in the default game, to the point where it could be considered invisible; I think you maybe see 40 damage from Cloud going to about 60-65 between Reactor 1 and the Midgar Escape depending on your level:
https://youtu.be/BVgL3yDdTZ0?t=15m11s

The Levels you gain aren't just for better HP/MP either; Level plays an important role in both types of damage formula so a Lv.21 character will hit harder than a Lv.11 character even with the exact same stats for instance. And because that rate of EXP is much higher in NT (you'll be approaching Lv.20-21 by the end of Midgar) you're going to see higher increases in your damage, combined with the higher stat bonuses on equipment you'll be picking up.

I've mentioned before (I think?) that SP from randoms is going to be limited by your Level. If any of your active party members exceed the Level of the enemy, then it won't give any SP (special low EXP monsters like Mandragora also don't give SP at all); this is to prevent accidentally over-farming it before you unlock the option. When you've got 100 (the max it can hold is 255), you can buy a Rank with it; you can also only buy 8 ranks per character. It'll be impossible to max out your stats.

So now at the moment I am in the Shinra building, I more than likely over leveled. Just about to fight the boss after you get Red XIII and I am at level 38.

[lionheart82]

HOW DID YOU GET THAT LEVEL!? :O ^o^ did you steal that jenova jam and jenova dried ham from uncle Hojos fridge again!? Just admit it!
 I just reached Condor and im STILL only lvl 20-21.

[Mithrain]

The .EXE will be reworked (again) with the Limits left much closer to their original base strength; I also added range modifiers to them which wasn't a great idea. And I'm in the process of redoing every single enemy and boss at the moment to be a better match for the player team.

It's almost as if you're able to read my mind sometimes.  Limitbreaks were almost a bad thing to get/use once you hit endgame, at least for Cloud, who pumps out nearly 50k damage per round, as Omnislash couldn't even get close to that amount.

Edit: Got any numbers to share, in regards to limit-break strength, for comparison-reasons? Just for Omnislash, for example. (Old, 1.35, & 1.40)

Any differences in regards to materia stat gain/loss in the .EXE?
I asked if you were able to give Shield a visual effect, a while back. Any news on that front?

edit#2: Doing some damage-tests, to determine who I want to accompany Cloud & Aerith in 1.4. Yuffie (equipped with Conformer) dealt about 6k per hit with counter attacks @ Nemesis, but for some reason she did half that with her 4x cut. Any idea why? It doesn't seem as if other characters suffer the same penalty.

[RynxXK5]

Just saw the new yuffie sequence (new to me anyways). Freakin brilliant Sega!

[lionheart82]

Ah ok, yeah you probably did, thays good in preventing farming and letting us play the game for the game itself.
Some thoughts on innates. Som are pretty weird, or not so usefull imho, like cid getting lucky when near death or tifa upgrading when using sense? So practically cid will rarely upgrade and even when he does it will be luck? If im not missing something isnt luck just a dum stat? And even when I use sense its just once, twice a battle, so it's very small, rare upgrade, compared to barrets for example. How about changing it to steal or restore instead? Yuffies i like its logical, goes with her.

I just remembered i got mastered chocobo summon. Its nice not to have to bother to master it for longest time, but i feel on the other hand that it would be satisfying to just put few hundreds or a few thousands ap to master it. Like this it feels like i got ultimate weapon that i didnt work for, and since your mod is all about satisfaction you get when you earn something...

Oh and to add to the poverty nick, im already rich fort condor and about 30k, all those easy steals and morphs are easy farming money, maybe now we have too much.

[Yuffie1983]

HOW DID YOU GET THAT LEVEL!? :O ^o^ did you steal that jenova jam and jenova dried ham from uncle Hojos fridge again!? Just admit it!
 I just reached Condor and im STILL only lvl 20-21.

The art of grinding, years of playing Warcraft. Yeah 18 hours into the game and my Barrier materia is not far of from Wall as is some of the elemental materia.

[lionheart82]

With the speed you are progressing you're gonna start playing 1.4 before it's even out!

[Yuffie1983]

Just saw the new yuffie sequence (new to me anyways). Freakin brilliant Sega!

Did you see the Chocobo bit when you go on the second bombing mission that was funny too.

[olearyf2525]

Did you see the Chocobo bit when you go on the second bombing mission that was funny too.

yea

[Snap006]

I thought Yuffie was overpowered in 1.35. She was quick, could hit hard either physically or magically, plus she made up for her lack of vitality by being a back row character.