[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994)

[AuthenticM]

It's a tricky situation. It was originally set up as a surprise (there was no option) so when the choice was added I had to decide between either explicitly stating what the options were and losing that element of surprise, or retain the surprise while knowing that it wouldn't be immediately obvious what each option was going to do. What I could do is set up a secondary choice so that if people don't like what transpired they get a chance to change it afterwards.

I understand. I think adding a second choice (just as Cloud wants to use the phoenix down on Aerith) would be appreciated, as I think the frustration that comes with an unwanted scenario is preferable to avoid over keeping an element of surprise. I would also say that New Threat offering the option to keep Aerith alive perhaps isn't really a surprise anymore, as the mod has been out for years and has some amount of notariety among the FF fan base.

With that said, I'd like to also bring forward two bugs that could be fixed in 2.0, both related to music.

The first is during the post-Jenova-battle scene after Aerith's death. When the characters mourn Aerith, right before Cloud picks up her body (or uses the phoenix down on her), the music that plays is the Aerith Church track, not the iconic sad theme. Then when the game transitions to the scene where Cloud puts the body in water, it's the correct music again. This bug seems to happen regardless of the choice made before the Jenova battle.

The second bug isn't born out of the mod; it's something present in every FF7 rerelease since the original game was released, and something that Square doesn't seem interested in patching. The music that plays during the pivotal scene in which Cloud kills Sephiroth (in the real flashback) isn't the right one. It's supposed to be Cloud's theme, at a very precise moment when the music crescendos; instead, it's the Mako Reactor theme. I timestamped a video at the correct moment during a playthrough of the game: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/465552182?t=2h39m6s (the streamer is aware of the bug and goes on to find a video of the original scene as it is meant to be played). It would be really nice of you if you could fix that bug for us, because Square won't. It's been years and they keep porting the game with the bug, and it's frustrating because that scene is the most important scene of the game.

Thanks!

[Sega Chief]

I understand. I think adding a second choice (just as Cloud wants to use the phoenix down on Aerith) would be appreciated, as I think the frustration that comes with an unwanted scenario is preferable to avoid over keeping an element of surprise. I would also say that New Threat offering the option to keep Aerith alive perhaps isn't really a surprise anymore, as the mod has been out for years and has some amount of notariety among the FF fan base.

With that said, I'd like to also bring forward two bugs that could be fixed in 2.0, both related to music.

The first is during the post-Jenova-battle scene after Aerith's death. When the characters mourn Aerith, right before Cloud picks up her body (or uses the phoenix down on her), the music that plays is the Aerith Church track, not the iconic sad theme. Then when the game transitions to the scene where Cloud puts the body in water, it's the correct music again. This bug seems to happen regardless of the choice made before the Jenova battle.

The second bug isn't born out of the mod; it's something present in every FF7 rerelease since the original game was released, and something that Square doesn't seem interested in patching. The music that plays during the pivotal scene in which Cloud kills Sephiroth (in the real flashback) isn't the right one. It's supposed to be Cloud's theme, at a very precise moment when the music crescendos; instead, it's the Mako Reactor theme. I timestamped a video at the correct moment during a playthrough of the game: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/465552182?t=2h39m6s (the streamer is aware of the bug and goes on to find a video of the original scene as it is meant to be played). It would be really nice of you if you could fix that bug for us, because Square won't. It's been years and they keep porting the game with the bug, and it's frustrating because that scene is the most important scene of the game.

Thanks!

I'll sort those two things you mentioned in the current 1.5 build, I'm putting a patch together in lieu of a 2.0 release (had to delay it, was rushing it and things have been disrupted a fair bit with everything that's going on).

[AuthenticM]

I'll sort those two things you mentioned in the current 1.5 build, I'm putting a patch together in lieu of a 2.0 release (had to delay it, was rushing it and things have been disrupted a fair bit with everything that's going on).

That is much appreciated!

Would you have any estimation on when we could see 2.0? In a month? Two?

In any case, thanks a lot for your work. I really appreciate it. If you put as much care into FF8's New Threat as what went into FF7's, I know it'll be something special to also look forward to!

cheers

[Drayenn]

Did something change? I can't seem to change party leader on the Highwind, have I missed a trigger somewhere or has that feature been removed?

[Ryudo]

I'll sort those two things you mentioned in the current 1.5 build, I'm putting a patch together in lieu of a 2.0 release (had to delay it, was rushing it and things have been disrupted a fair bit with everything that's going on).

Nice to hear about a patch fix release for 1.5! Will that mean the dialog bugs that were mentioned earlier when you use Menu Overhaul will be fixed as well? (And possibly the Field Animation fixes for Dark Cave, etc?)

And again, thanks for all your work on this stuff so far!

[Sega Chief]

That is much appreciated!

Would you have any estimation on when we could see 2.0? In a month? Two?

In any case, thanks a lot for your work. I really appreciate it. If you put as much care into FF8's New Threat as what went into FF7's, I know it'll be something special to also look forward to!

cheers

Not sure yet.

Did something change? I can't seem to change party leader on the Highwind, have I missed a trigger somewhere or has that feature been removed?

It should be available after reaching the bottom of the North Crater and then coming back on Disc 3; the NPC on the right in the operations room handles it.

Nice to hear about a patch fix release for 1.5! Will that mean the dialog bugs that were mentioned earlier when you use Menu Overhaul will be fixed as well? (And possibly the Field Animation fixes for Dark Cave, etc?)

And again, thanks for all your work on this stuff so far!

I added a 7th anim so that'll hopefully sort out the dark cave thing. I'll try a default field for the shinra basement flashback, but if that doesn't fix it then it's going to have to be sorted on Menu Overhaul's end. I think one of the options on Chris' Stock UI mod avoids the issue but can't remember which.

The patch for 7h will include some extra options, been tinkering around with it. Should have been doing that years ago but was always a bit wary about making the regular installer different to the 7h version.

[GoGoGadget]

I have tried multiple ways, both New Threat and New Threat Vanilla combat, to install this with the bundle gameplay mod that is included in 7th Heaven 2.0's default list.  It never installs correctly.  Only by downloading the file from here and installing it individually, but still via 7th Heaven 2.0, was I able to install it correctly. 

Thing is, it's hard to tell that it's not installed correctly for anyone that has never played it before.  Little things mess up, like characters not starting with certain materia, the chocobo encounter in the train tunnels still would happen but the chocobo model would be different and not use the abilities it's supposed to, you'd fight Plasmabuster twice in Reactor 5 instead of the soldiers encounter at the bomb site.  Kinda sucks that it's broken in the implementation that so many new players will experience it in.

[epsilon]

I have tried multiple ways, both New Threat and New Threat Vanilla combat, to install this with the bundle gameplay mod that is included in 7th Heaven 2.0's default list.  It never installs correctly.  Only by downloading the file from here and installing it individually, but still via 7th Heaven 2.0, was I able to install it correctly.

For whatever is worth, I have used the regular install, the reunion install and 7th heaven and all worked out of the box (7th heaven has some known problems, but those are not NT specific). What you are describing sounds like a mod conflict -- so you probably should tell what is this "bundle gameplay mod that is included in 7th Heaven 2.0's default list" and people here might offer some help.

[Ryudo]

I have tried multiple ways, both New Threat and New Threat Vanilla combat, to install this with the bundle gameplay mod that is included in 7th Heaven 2.0's default list.  It never installs correctly.  Only by downloading the file from here and installing it individually, but still via 7th Heaven 2.0, was I able to install it correctly. 

Thing is, it's hard to tell that it's not installed correctly for anyone that has never played it before.  Little things mess up, like characters not starting with certain materia, the chocobo encounter in the train tunnels still would happen but the chocobo model would be different and not use the abilities it's supposed to, you'd fight Plasmabuster twice in Reactor 5 instead of the soldiers encounter at the bomb site.  Kinda sucks that it's broken in the implementation that so many new players will experience it in.

There are specific things you can check to see if it's all implemented correctly. (e.g. does starting a New Game ask you for Normal or Arrange mode), and whether or not the first battle in the game is with 'MP Trainees', etc. Potions healing for 300 HP instead of the old amount.

[EQ2Alyza]

For whatever is worth, I have used the regular install, the reunion install and 7th heaven and all worked out of the box (7th heaven has some known problems, but those are not NT specific). What you are describing sounds like a mod conflict -- so you probably should tell what is this "bundle gameplay mod that is included in 7th Heaven 2.0's default list" and people here might offer some help.

I don't know either what he means by "bundle gameplay mod..." When you configure and choose a gameplay option, only that one will load. I ALWAYS download the IRO from the OP here and copy it directly into the Catalog. The mod files are never altered. Subfolders are shifted to the root folder because 7H is having issues loading the flevel from subfolders, but it's tested and working before uploading.

Try not to believe everything that is written to be true. We all play with varying setups, and in so many cases, issues tend to narrow down to the user setup.

[Fauve]

I'll sort those two things you mentioned in the current 1.5 build, I'm putting a patch together in lieu of a 2.0 release (had to delay it, was rushing it and things have been disrupted a fair bit with everything that's going on).

Sounds good. And in regards to the Mideel memory sequence, will this update have the correct music play when Sephiroth gets thrown into the Lifestream? Square messed that scene up for the PC version.

[GoGoGadget]

There are specific things you can check to see if it's all implemented correctly. (e.g. does starting a New Game ask you for Normal or Arrange mode), and whether or not the first battle in the game is with 'MP Trainees', etc. Potions healing for 300 HP instead of the old amount.

That's the problem, those things DID work.  But not everything else did. 

I don't know either what he means by "bundle gameplay mod..." When you configure and choose a gameplay option, only that one will load. I ALWAYS download the IRO from the OP here and copy it directly into the Catalog. The mod files are never altered. Subfolders are shifted to the root folder because 7H is having issues loading the flevel from subfolders, but it's tested and working before uploading.

Try not to believe everything that is written to be true. We all play with varying setups, and in so many cases, issues tend to narrow down to the user setup.

In 7th Heaven 2.0, there is a "Browse Catalog" tab.  This tab has a "Gameplay" mod that includes New Threat under "Difficulty."  Most new players are going to be using New Threat from there, like I did, instead of downloading the file from here, which I ended up doing and only then realized why New Threat was so hard for me.  Little things were screwed up.  For example, Aeris did NOT start with any materia, let alone mastered Barrier and MBarrier.  Red XIII did not have any materia, either.  Other little things were screwed up.

It was more a word of caution instead of looking for a fix.  I have already fixed the issue by just downloading the file from here.  But if you install it via the mod that is in the "Browse Catalog" tab of 7th Heaven 2.0, it doesn't work correctly.

[EQ2Alyza]

Well I'm not going to take blame for it. SC is already upset with me, and I don't want to further upset him. I unpack the same IRO you download from the OP and put the same files in there. There's nothing I can do if no one figures out why they aren't getting the same results.

[Sega Chief]

Sounds good. And in regards to the Mideel memory sequence, will this update have the correct music play when Sephiroth gets thrown into the Lifestream? Square messed that scene up for the PC version.

I had a look into it and seems that the song set up for it doesn't loop midway for a little bit like the PSX version does, but DLPB's R06 has that loop added in to make it last the correct length of time. I've added that track to the Main Installer + IRO.

I have tried multiple ways, both New Threat and New Threat Vanilla combat, to install this with the bundle gameplay mod that is included in 7th Heaven 2.0's default list.  It never installs correctly.  Only by downloading the file from here and installing it individually, but still via 7th Heaven 2.0, was I able to install it correctly. 

Thing is, it's hard to tell that it's not installed correctly for anyone that has never played it before.  Little things mess up, like characters not starting with certain materia, the chocobo encounter in the train tunnels still would happen but the chocobo model would be different and not use the abilities it's supposed to, you'd fight Plasmabuster twice in Reactor 5 instead of the soldiers encounter at the bomb site.  Kinda sucks that it's broken in the implementation that so many new players will experience it in.

That's the problem, those things DID work.  But not everything else did. 
In 7th Heaven 2.0, there is a "Browse Catalog" tab.  This tab has a "Gameplay" mod that includes New Threat under "Difficulty."  Most new players are going to be using New Threat from there, like I did, instead of downloading the file from here, which I ended up doing and only then realized why New Threat was so hard for me.  Little things were screwed up.  For example, Aeris did NOT start with any materia, let alone mastered Barrier and MBarrier.  Red XIII did not have any materia, either.  Other little things were screwed up.

It was more a word of caution instead of looking for a fix.  I have already fixed the issue by just downloading the file from here.  But if you install it via the mod that is in the "Browse Catalog" tab of 7th Heaven 2.0, it doesn't work correctly.

Sounds like the scene.bin wasn't patched either if you got Air Buster at the Reactor 5 core instead of the Bio-troopers.

Well I'm not going to take blame for it. SC is already upset with me, and I don't want to further upset him. I unpack the same IRO you download from the OP and put the same files in there. There's nothing I can do if no one figures out why they aren't getting the same results.

So assuming my 2.0 install is working correctly, NT from the catalog (dated 3/3/2020) seems to be functioning as intended. Scene, Kernel, Flevel, Hext, battle/char, all passed. Mod.xml looks correct, no typos etc.

What I'm going to do is go through all of these mods in here and put a list together of what will conflict with NT. I'll also try to set up some kind of system where the game is capable of checking itself that all required files are in place, like a global var 'handshake' between the scene, kernel, flevel, and exe. I'll add a 'Test NT Installation' option to the New Game menu which will trigger a debug battle to perform the check.

[Zara9]

hey sega cheif

with the omega boss fight when you first get the KOTR materia, is ice storm spose to hit omega or the party insted, just curious

[Sega Chief]

hey sega cheif

with the omega boss fight when you first get the KOTR materia, is ice storm spose to hit omega or the party insted, just curious

Shinryu's attacks can target both the player and Omega.

[Sega Chief]

I did a sweep of all the mods currently available from the Qhimm + Mods of the Round catalogs and found two conflicts:

1) ProtomanZxAdvent's Mod Compilation (Spell/Item Names Option) - Overwrites the Scene + Kernel and in any case the descriptions would be inaccurate to NT changes

2) ESUI Controller Addon - Shows button icons in dialogues instead of the default PC text. This overwrites the flevel if it's placed below NT. Chris was in touch recently about this so I'll look into adding support for that.

For Alyza: I'm adding these to my IRO's mod.xml.

<Compatibility>
   <Forbid ModID="ace21ed7-9e32-4782-b397-1ce937bf3507">Gameplay - Qhimm Catalog</Forbid>
   <Forbid ModID="fc1ef042-8e74-4d0b-b6e9-3a88f7dfdc0b">ProtomanZxAdvent's Mod Compilation</Forbid>
   <Forbid ModID="135478f5-b53f-4960-b411-b93370dc45da">ESUI Controller Addon</Forbid>
</Compatibility>

[EQ2Alyza]

Thank you for taking the time to check.

The ESUI Controller Addon will be inside the User Interface 3.1 update (using it now in testing), and it loads below Gameplay when auto sorting in 7H 2.0. This gives Gameplay the priority (top to bottom priority) for flevel loading and could explain why I don't have the same issue. I don't use the PZA Mod Compilation, so I didn't know about that one.

[Fauve]

I had a look into it and seems that the song set up for it doesn't loop midway for a little bit like the PSX version does, but DLPB's R06 has that loop added in to make it last the correct length of time. I've added that track to the Main Installer + IRO.

Awesome thanks!

[Drayenn]

Are Stardusts supposed to deal that much damage? Having a stock of them has quickly invalidated a lot of fights.

[Ryudo]

I was looking up some videos on NT 1.5 (and apparently found some 1.4 as well) - But I noticed a line in Sector 5 that was different from what I'm playing. It's the guy in the pipe.

In the videos of the people playing, Aerith says "This guy am sick" (Base vanilla has the famous "This guy are sick") line.

Either way, I was looking at the line in my game just now, and she says this instead: "These guy is sick"


Is the dialog random? One of the videos I watched had 1.5 NT too, so I should be getting "This guy am sick" too right? Unless it was changed recently in a mini update?

[Sega Chief]

Are Stardusts supposed to deal that much damage? Having a stock of them has quickly invalidated a lot of fights.

They are a bit too strong, but I left it be at the time when it mentioned before.

I was looking up some videos on NT 1.5 (and apparently found some 1.4 as well) - But I noticed a line in Sector 5 that was different from what I'm playing. It's the guy in the pipe.

In the videos of the people playing, Aerith says "This guy am sick" (Base vanilla has the famous "This guy are sick") line.

Either way, I was looking at the line in my game just now, and she says this instead: "These guy is sick"


Is the dialog random? One of the videos I watched had 1.5 NT too, so I should be getting "This guy am sick" too right? Unless it was changed recently in a mini update?

Will fix in the next update.

[Ryudo]

They are a bit too strong, but I left it be at the time when it mentioned before.

Will fix in the next update.

Ohh so something is different after all? I was thinking it was something on my side at first like an incorrect install or something (despite everything else working fine so far aside from known bugs), since me and the guy who made the video both had 1.5.

[Yuffie1983]

Hey Cheif can I ask please what are the prizes you get for hitting 5000 points in the Speed Square game in the Gold Saucer. Thanks for the help. 

[Sega Chief]

Hey Cheif can I ask please what are the prizes you get for hitting 5000 points in the Speed Square game in the Gold Saucer. Thanks for the help. 

Umbrella if it's disc 1, flayer if it's disc 2/3.