Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994) (Read 5422488 times)

Aerodynamics · « **Reply #10175 on:** 2020-08-13 22:59:51 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2020-08-13 16:45:23

I'm a bit torn on whether to continue with FF8 NT. I've got a fairly good grasp of the field scripting but the biggest obstacle at the moment is not being able to easily bring in or swap out field models + animations are tied to the field model group which restricts what can be done there. My plan is going to be getting all the foundation work done first off, then start seeing what I can get done with Disc 4 as I wanted to do more with the time-compression state you move through before the castle.

In my opinion, no one can fix FF8 but Sega Chief. I really enjoyed the gameplay of NT Demo, and that was the only time I enjoyed FF8 gameplay. That game is so good, yet completely broken. Someone needs to fix FF8. I can wait, it's my childhood game, I can wait a year or two, take your time

))))

Metsys · « **Reply #10176 on:** 2020-08-13 23:09:56 »

Sega chief a question, are you sure that Shield is in the crater? ive checked the left-down path but i cant seem to find it. Its the only magic im missing

Concession · « **Reply #10177 on:** 2020-08-13 23:32:16 »

Two more small things

Spoiler: show

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10178 on:** 2020-08-14 01:00:03 »

Quote from: Metsys on 2020-08-13 23:09:56

Sega chief a question, are you sure that Shield is in the crater? ive checked the left-down path but i cant seem to find it. Its the only magic im missing

It's where Mega-All is in the default game, you have to grab it as you jump between the platforms. It's close to the exit of that entire route.

Quote from: Concession on 2020-08-13 23:32:16

Two more small things

Spoiler: show

At the start of the Midgar raid, the party is gathered around a ladder which goes underground. Aeris is there and has a line even if she is dead.

When you talk to Hojo at the cannon at the end of the raid:

Hojo
"...We made ourselves an 'Ancient'!!
Or so we throught! Ha ha ha!!"

I'll get them.

chimaerath · « **Reply #10179 on:** 2020-08-14 04:23:29 »

Spoiler: show

wdx · « **Reply #10180 on:** 2020-08-14 05:32:22 »

Quote from: chimaerath on 2020-08-14 04:23:29

Spoiler: show

During Cid's Zombincibility, Omega never did anything, I assume because Cid couldn't be targeted (because I couldn't target Cid with anything either). I only occasionally saw the " Target Locked!" pop-up, but with no animation from Omega.

I didn't remember the info about Zombie from the Beginner Hall, and I didn't find info about Statuses in the Documentation (can I suggest putting it in the Balancing document?), so the only info I found was from these posts, and it sounds like you should still be able to target and cast spells (like Barrier/MBarrier) on Zombie-d characters.

||

Spoiler: show

lycancowboy1989 · « **Reply #10181 on:** 2020-08-14 05:35:05 »

A couple more bugs

Spoiler: show

Also you mentioned Junon league being disabled for this build, is that for both game modes or just B?

As for the feedback for game mode B after finishing it, medgar is excellent. Content past midgar is a little sparse particularly once you get the highwind.(which was somewhat the case in base game as well but what was there was pretty good.

Spoiler: show

wdx · « **Reply #10182 on:** 2020-08-14 07:21:58 »

for anyone having gil grind issues with type b heres a handy price guide

Spoiler: show

DefMettle · « **Reply #10183 on:** 2020-08-14 07:55:55 »

https://ibb.co/LrvvcL0 v2.0.91
does this need changing?

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10184 on:** 2020-08-14 13:08:22 »

Quote from: chimaerath on 2020-08-14 04:23:29

Spoiler: show

Something weird happened in the KOTR fight. I can't exactly remember what happened, but I think this was the sequence:

*stuff happened* --> Cid died --> Shinryu cast the zombie thing that said it is permeating the air --> Cid was revived with Renew --> I could control Cid normally --> Cloud died --> I couldn't target Cloud to revive him, including with Renew --> eventually Aeris died --> I couldn't target anyone now, but Cid was still alive --> Cid spent the next 10+ minutes slowly chipping down Omega until he died.

Disclaimer: I don't know exactly when Cid died. But, I definitely couldn't target Cloud or Aeris once they died, and I definitely cast Renew on Cid to revive him at some point.

During Cid's Zombincibility, Omega never did anything, I assume because Cid couldn't be targeted (because I couldn't target Cid with anything either). I only occasionally saw the " Target Locked!" pop-up, but with no animation from Omega.

I didn't remember the info about Zombie from the Beginner Hall, and I didn't find info about Statuses in the Documentation (can I suggest putting it in the Balancing document?), so the only info I found was from these posts, and it sounds like you should still be able to target and cast spells (like Barrier/MBarrier) on Zombie-d characters.

If you want, you can wait until tomorrow, and I'll try the fight again and recreate what had happened.

I had a look and it's almost certainly to do with a change I made between the 1.5 AI and the 2.0 AI, which was to make afflicted characters untargetable. I've reverted this back and set them to be immune to restorative instead; I think that Phoenix/Goblin Song can get around this effect though, as they're not technically elemental but applied through a special flag on that attacks themselves.

Quote from: lycancowboy1989 on 2020-08-14 05:35:05

A couple more bugs

Spoiler: show
ruby weapon did not spawn for me at all but the other weapons did, not sure of the cause.

In nibelheim path to reactor the first time in the room with the pipes where you fight the boss blocking the right side of the screen(atm I think) the boss stays there after defeating him allowing you to fight him a second time after which he disappears. You get sp for both battles having me end up with 5/4 upgrades for each character. Game type B.

Also you mentioned Junon league being disabled for this build, is that for both game modes or just B?

As for the feedback for game mode B after finishing it, medgar is excellent. Content past midgar is a little sparse particularly once you get the highwind.(which was somewhat the case in base game as well but what was there was pretty good.

Spoiler: show
As for suggestions to pad that out, perhaps take the optional things and tie them in to mandatory quests? Things like ancient forest, materia caves, weapon fights, etc. Apart from that small sidequests for each of the towns could help there as well to make the game world seem a bit more alive. Perhaps tracking down zack's last mission details for his parents, helping Marlene in kalm, putting Seto to rest in Cosmo canyon or perhaps rumors of another of red 13s species surviving (to explain the kids he has in the final cutscene), Junon league eventually for junon, a quest to earn the villa in Costa del sol etc just small things like that.

As for possibilities for more drastic changes if you felt you wanted to go that route, eliminating the ending cutscene and using scene work to replace it could lead to interesting possibilities with different outcomes or if possible even clipping the final fMV to only show certain parts to craft a new narrative. At one point in the story some background 8nfo was leading me to speculate the story may have changed to be cloud and sephiroth being competing prototypes rather than a master and clone setup, which could be an interesting path to go down. Perhaps dr gast having escaped and created cloud as an anti sephiroth weapon through elmyras DNA being infused to create a jenova cell vs ancient cell situation. At another point it seemed almost as if sephiroth had been rewritten to be less psychopathic and seemed like the possibility was there of him joining the team in the fight against jehovah which could also have been interesting, but of course a lot more work. Just ideas if you decide to change things further.

Ruby spawns after after a certain number of random battles are fought and/or fields are visited once Ultimate Weapon is killed.

That double-boss in Nibelheim should have been fixed as of the latest patches. Are you on the current version?

Quote from: DefMettle on 2020-08-14 07:55:55

https://ibb.co/LrvvcL0 v2.0.91
does this need changing?

Yeah, I've updated it now in my current files for v2.0.92.

Quote from: storminjnorman on 2020-08-14 08:16:41

My game keeps getting stuck after the optional battle in Midgar Underground with the Turks. Whether or not I fight them, Rude always comes running in from the 4th wall and keeps running into a pillar, and keeps running, basically softlocking the game.

Help?

Are you on v2.0.6 or later? If so, let me know which characters are in your team as this affects the scene. For now, try PHSing Tifa in (or out) of your team and reattempting it, assuming you're on the most recent version.

storminjnorman · « **Reply #10185 on:** 2020-08-14 13:34:15 »

I hadn't updated, and when I did it worked. Tried to delete my message but it was too late! Thanks!

lycancowboy1989 · « **Reply #10186 on:** 2020-08-14 13:37:28 »

Quote

Ruby spawns after after a certain number of random battles are fought and/or fields are visited once Ultimate Weapon is killed.

That double-boss in Nibelheim should have been fixed as of the latest patches. Are you on the current version?

I am on the current version as far as i know. This occurred the day before yesterday, and the file was started two days before that immediately after updating. if it was patched out at some point after the 12th of august then it may be that, but otherwise im updated already.

as for ruby weapon ultimate weapon had been killed and had probably fifty or so battles on the overworld before trying to go after him, at which point he was not there. If the threshold for battles fought is higher than forty or so after ultimate then you can just ignore that bug and ill try again after more fights.

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10187 on:** 2020-08-14 13:57:10 »

Quote from: storminjnorman on 2020-08-14 13:34:15

I hadn't updated, and when I did it worked. Tried to delete my message but it was too late! Thanks!

Ah cool, no worries.

Quote from: lycancowboy1989 on 2020-08-14 13:37:28

I am on the current version as far as i know. This occurred the day before yesterday, and the file was started two days before that immediately after updating. if it was patched out at some point after the 12th of august then it may be that, but otherwise im updated already.

as for ruby weapon ultimate weapon had been killed and had probably fifty or so battles on the overworld before trying to go after him, at which point he was not there. If the threshold for battles fought is higher than forty or so after ultimate then you can just ignore that bug and ill try again after more fights.

I'll check into Mt. Nibel again then.

Ruby's spawn has always been a bit erratic; it should be the same as in vanilla. General consensus is that it's Ultimate Weapon defeated, then one random battle on the world map: https://youtu.be/tNHugNx-kDE

But a few other things I found:
1) Some people claim that Ruby can spawn but still be invisible. Try flying down low around the desert area just in case.
2) Diamond Weapon is claimed to be another requirement.

LeOsTyLe · « **Reply #10188 on:** 2020-08-14 15:39:03 »

Quote from: Sega Chief on 2020-08-13 16:45:23

Junon League was deactivated in this build, though the script handling it is still in there in case it gets re-implemented but I've no plans to currently.

Is there any reason you removed it? The Junon League was a really cool idea in my opinion.
I hope there is no more content from NT 1.5 deactived.

Schrödinger · « **Reply #10189 on:** 2020-08-14 16:45:25 »

Gameplay feedback for Type B (Hard Mode, No Sources): I've just only finished Cosmo Canyon but so far I 've found the difficulty more than manageable. I've never die, never had to use items other than the casual potion/phoenix, never run from a battle. I'm using ATB Wait ofc. Problem is the Gil. I don't want the money to make my life easier but I want to have at least "one of each". It's not fun to have to skip some weapons (specially now that they're so different from each other) or materia. And there's the Condor War, that requires to have at least 4k in the pocket everytime. I was thinking about toggling to no exp, easy mode to grind gil but that just seems gimmicky. So, I'd reconsider about the No Gil feature of hard mode. Just my two cents. Awesome mod either way!

LeOsTyLe · « **Reply #10190 on:** 2020-08-14 17:24:27 »

Quote from: Schrödinger on 2020-08-14 16:45:25

Gameplay feedback for Type B (Hard Mode, No Sources): I've just only finished Cosmo Canyon but so far I 've found the difficulty more than manageable. I've never die, never had to use items other than the casual potion/phoenix, never run from a battle. I'm using ATB Wait ofc. Problem is the Gil. I don't want the money to make my life easier but I want to have at least "one of each". It's not fun to have to skip some weapons (specially now that they're so different from each other) or materia. And there's the Condor War, that requires to have at least 4k in the pocket everytime. I was thinking about toggling to no exp, easy mode to grind gil but that just seems gimmicky. So, I'd reconsider about the No Gil feature of hard mode. Just my two cents. Awesome mod either way!

A tip for fast money in Hard. In "early" game go for Morph Kalm Wolves (almost 3k per Battle, minus some "wrong" enconters") and in "Midgame" Cosmo Canyon Beach (on averange almost 8k per Battle). You can prepeare Morph with Spell+All. You have to adjust the Magic stat of the caster so the morph Character can kill them with 1 Morph. I had like 50-60 Kalm Wolves now i am out of money and luckiely i just arrived in cosmo canyon.

But yeah 0 Gil can be annoying.

Pruntarious · « **Reply #10191 on:** 2020-08-14 17:28:49 »

Have many of the side quests in disc 3 changed compared to v1.5?

Got to the bottom of the crater and there wasn't the phone call about the New Threats. I've noticed some of the final weapons and limits have changed yeah but have you gotten rid of the Mt Nibel, Corel side missions? Those were fun...

Spoiler: show

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10192 on:** 2020-08-14 18:02:20 »

Quote from: LeOsTyLe on 2020-08-14 15:39:03

Is there any reason you removed it? The Junon League was a really cool idea in my opinion.
I hope there is no more content from NT 1.5 deactived.

It could make a return, but no plans yet.

Quote from: Schrödinger on 2020-08-14 16:45:25

Gameplay feedback for Type B (Hard Mode, No Sources): I've just only finished Cosmo Canyon but so far I 've found the difficulty more than manageable. I've never die, never had to use items other than the casual potion/phoenix, never run from a battle. I'm using ATB Wait ofc. Problem is the Gil. I don't want the money to make my life easier but I want to have at least "one of each". It's not fun to have to skip some weapons (specially now that they're so different from each other) or materia. And there's the Condor War, that requires to have at least 4k in the pocket everytime. I was thinking about toggling to no exp, easy mode to grind gil but that just seems gimmicky. So, I'd reconsider about the No Gil feature of hard mode. Just my two cents. Awesome mod either way!

Seems to be the emerging consensus; a revision to hard mode will need to wait for a 2.1 update I think as it'd be a fair bit of work.

Quote from: Pruntarious on 2020-08-14 17:28:49

Have many of the side quests in disc 3 changed compared to v1.5?

Got to the bottom of the crater and there wasn't the phone call about the New Threats. I've noticed some of the final weapons and limits have changed yeah but have you gotten rid of the Mt Nibel, Corel side missions? Those were fun...

Spoiler: show

Also just went to Lucrecia's cave on Disc 3 with Tifa as leader.... Game soft locks.

There's no phone call; most of it unlocks on Disc 3 now without the crater as a requirement. Notable exception is the party leader swap thing.

Cid's sidequest got canned, and Tifa's is back to the default of playing the piano for Final Heaven and getting Premium Heart from the automated weapon shop in Wall Market (though I made the Cloud, Tifa, Cid scene for it play automatically and modified it slightly). Aeris' one is also gone and was tied into Cloud's instead as an appended scene. The pre-existing sidequests for Lv.4 Limits that came over from 1.5 were modified and revamped, with the exception of Barret though he has a small scene in Kalm's Weapon Shop for Catastrophe.

Doll · « **Reply #10193 on:** 2020-08-14 21:47:37 »

the no gil on hard mode is useful as an indicator as to whether or not hard mode is actually on, at least!!

Just got to costa del sol, lot of fun so far. Looking at the balancing readme, if I'm reading things correctly, it feels hard to justify certain 'builds' if you want to play optimally or w/e. 50 points of vit/spr being equivalent to a respective 10% damage feels pretty underwhelming when dex does so many things (including evasion, so it kind of fills vit's role as well by increasing your ability to survive physical attacks) in addition to 50 points being equivalent to a haste buff. Maybe there's a lot of secret math going on and I'll regret this when late game enemies are pummeling me.

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10194 on:** 2020-08-14 22:39:17 »

Quote from: Doll on 2020-08-14 21:47:37

the no gil on hard mode is useful as an indicator as to whether or not hard mode is actually on, at least!!

Just got to costa del sol, lot of fun so far. Looking at the balancing readme, if I'm reading things correctly, it feels hard to justify certain 'builds' if you want to play optimally or w/e. 50 points of vit/spr being equivalent to a respective 10% damage feels pretty underwhelming when dex does so many things (including evasion, so it kind of fills vit's role as well by increasing your ability to survive physical attacks) in addition to 50 points being equivalent to a haste buff. Maybe there's a lot of secret math going on and I'll regret this when late game enemies are pummeling me.

It's consistency, really; evasion is great as it's 100% mitigation when it works, but is 0% when it doesn't; so if the check doesn't work out in your favour it can leave you taking a lot of damage. A build focusing on defence will take damage more often but the damage is more likely to be manageable. Then on the other side of it, a high dex build can react to incoming damage more quickly because the turns come about quicker.

Some other things:

Cover negates evasion, so if you had a character looking to soak up damage for others then evasion won't do them much good. Defence or Luck would be the better stats for it, as the latter is the only way to dodge physical attacks while Covering.

For counter-attacks, they won't proc at all if the attack misses so characters can lose a bit of damage this way if they have high evasion. A high-defence character would be able to soak those hits without much trouble and then deal damage in return at a more regular rate. The dex side of this is that with a higher Dex you're more accurate, so commands like Deathblow are more viable and you can get damage in that way using it with added cut + the higher turn rate.

So I think one thing you could do with defence is set up a character with Cover, counter-attacks, and an innate that works into that like Cloud's or Barret's, then build up their defence so they can soak hits up for the party, make things a bit more stable, and convert that into outgoing damage. I also think that Magic Defence is worth investing in because, unlike physical evasion and Luck, Magic Evasion doesn't get any help from other stats; just the armour. So having a bit more in Magic Defence can be handy.

Doll · « **Reply #10195 on:** 2020-08-15 03:38:33 »

yeah I normally value being able to 'plan' and not rely on dodging, it's just all the extra turns that seem to tip things in favor of dex with the current amount of source points you get from upgrades being what they are. Even with Barret, who is mainly who I was thinking about making a tanky tanky since a lot of things point you in that direction, doesn't seem like it would outweigh all those extra opportunities to do damage/heal/use grenade on self... I imagine animation bottlenecks would make the dex less attractive on active time mode, though. Might still make him a cover/counterattack bot. It does feel like his destiny.

chimaerath · « **Reply #10196 on:** 2020-08-15 04:04:04 »

Spoiler: show

If you take the elevator in Junon up to HQ (where Barret and Tifa were to be executed), one of the maps doesn't show Cloud's walking/running annimation, and only has him sliding a stationary model as he moves. In the menu, the map is "Junon HQ, 2F". It is the map with the Save Point, between the window area (with all the computers, where Rufus ordered the cannon to fire) and the U-turn stairs area.

(Random sidenote: In my multiple playthroughs of this game, this is the first time I realized you can backtrack to that area......)

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10197 on:** 2020-08-15 15:20:46 »

Quote from: chimaerath on 2020-08-15 04:04:04

Spoiler: show
Is Lucrecia supposed to be weak to Gravity? The fight was much much easier than expected once I realized that a floating monster could be hit with Demi3, even if it was reduced damage.

If you take the elevator in Junon up to HQ (where Barret and Tifa were to be executed), one of the maps doesn't show Cloud's walking/running annimation, and only has him sliding a stationary model as he moves. In the menu, the map is "Junon HQ, 2F". It is the map with the Save Point, between the window area (with all the computers, where Rufus ordered the cannon to fire) and the U-turn stairs area.

(Random sidenote: In my multiple playthroughs of this game, this is the first time I realized you can backtrack to that area......)

Yeah, I set it up for that though there's half-resistance set on there as well. I was thinking of getting rid of half-resistance against gravity on enemies and instead tweaking the %-value on the spells themselves, as it's not great to have 25% advertised on the spell but then in-battle have it dealing 12% due to resistance.

Aquarii · « **Reply #10198 on:** 2020-08-15 20:07:45 »

Type B:

Spoiler: show

Sega Chief · « **Reply #10199 on:** 2020-08-15 21:44:27 »

Quote from: Aquarii on 2020-08-15 20:07:45

Type B:
Spoiler: show
So i am fighting the X-ATM Scorpion which is standing in front of the Underwater Reactor in CD2. After it summons those little robots, i´m lost. I do not stand a chance against them. They are killing me in around 2 rounds xD What is the trick here? My Group is between Level 30 and 34

Bolt protection is your best bet in this fight as both X-ATM and the opts have a bolt-based attack; after that, fire protection can also be a nice bonus for the main boss' W-Flare. If the gun/Laser attacks are causing issues, then a Protect Vest can be handy to reduce Shoot element damage.

When the X-ATM's tail goes up, you'll want to hold off on attacks and bolster the party in preparation for the opts coming out and also to avoid counter-attacks from Tail Laser Mk.2. MBarrier should be a priority as you'll be getting hit with W-Shock when the tail comes down and the opts have two magic-based attacks, one of which hits the whole party.

The Opts can be hit with Insta-KO, Slow, Stop, Mini, and Paralysis. Stop+All has a decent chance of disabling some of them for a while, as does the Alexander summon. Mini may not be as useful as two of their attacks are magic-based but is worth considering if you have a spare two slots for Transform+All. Insta-KO can either be attempted using Odin or by having characters with Destruct/Odin + Added Effect in their weapon (or a weapon that has it innately, like Tifa's Kaiser Knuckle) with a roughly 20% chance of inflicting it per physical hit. If a character with Cover + Counter Attack had that on, or if a character is using Slash-All or has a weapon that targets all, then they'd be able to pick some of them off faster. The Remove spell can also do it 100%, but it's tough to unlock by this point. Kiss of Death items can also be used for a chance of inflicting insta-KO.

The main boss can be Paralysed for some relief (Cross Slash or Dazers), but can also be Silenced + Blinded. Ink or Ramuh can inflict Blind, and Silence can come from either the Silence spell, Leviathan, or an item. If that's done prior to the opts coming out then you'll have some more breathing space as he'll be missing you more often.