Author Topic: Real Life believes (Read 66897 times)

The Black-caped Man · « **on:** 2007-12-31 16:58:45 »

Since this is the greatest Final Fantasy forum on earth(or at least the greatest I found

) I am sure Final Fantasy VII is more than a game in your eyes. As for me, it changed my way of thinkin in real life. Yes I do have the belief of Final Fantasy VII. I believe that everything consists of a combination of Life stream particles(or as the christ would say: the "soul") and I do believe that our spiritual energy returns to the planet when were gone, as does our body(=decay). Then our consciousness joins the main Life Stream so that the particles are somehow shuffled and then somewhere else we are reborn. We are no longer WE but I'm sure that sometimes certain particles are the same than in our previous lifes. We are combinations of Life Stream particles and human DNA.

This is my belief.

Now I wanted to ask what you guys think? whats your believe? And did Final Fantasy VII also affect your way of life like in my case?

squeeble · « **Reply #1 on:** 2008-01-02 05:24:41 »

Ah well it helped me look at things more maturely as a child, it also helped my puzzle solving abilities grow while I was young, due to the thinking nature of the game, but as for turning it into a belief like a religion, and taking it too seriously it's just a bit weird..

How old are you exactly?

The Black-caped Man · « **Reply #2 on:** 2008-01-02 06:29:44 »

18 and you are exactly the people I dont understand. There are no facts about religion so why should this be wronger than anything else?

Tsetra · « **Reply #3 on:** 2008-01-02 06:48:37 »

It also shouldn't be "righter" than anything else, by that same principle. One thing I've noticed about religion in general is that all are possible, yet none can be proven by fact. There's evidence, there's faith, there's what seems to make sense, but ultimately the fact people still argue about religion constantly speaks for itself.
That said, there's really no reason to start believing in the lifestream, fayth, the matrix, or anything else. Consider it a possibility, sure. Truly believe in it, though? I don't think it wise to fill gaps in our knowledge with any answers just for the sake of self comfort. Assuming we don't all die in war or accident, we might find the truth eventually.

The Black-caped Man · « **Reply #4 on:** 2008-01-02 06:54:18 »

No no I dont just copied the believe so Im finally satisfied or so. Long before playing Final Fantasy VII(I think I was 7 when I played it first) I already believed in rebirth. The Christendom never fit for me. I never believed in Heaven or Hell or other places we would reach. Final Fantasy VII just provided me with terms. Now I dont call it "soul" or spriritual energy, I call it Life stream. Now I dont call it rebirth(cause we wont be "WE" anymore after it) I call it returning. Thats all.

squeeble · « **Reply #5 on:** 2008-01-02 07:07:26 »

I'm just one of those people that never bothered with religion, I don't waste my time with trivial facts/fiction in the event I may or may not die tomorrow, so "believing" in any religion let alone that of something based on a video game (wether you first thought about this stuff or not) saying that you believed in something similar before may have made more sense, but trying to back up what you believe in from a video game seems very childish.
When I was 7-10 I wanted to be like cloud and thought about stuff like that but I'm 17 and have a full time life so I can' think like that anymore.

I'm sorry if it comes across as condescending, but it's all just a little strange..

Also

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One thing I've noticed about religion in general is that all are possible, yet none can be proven by fact.

I recommend watching the south park epidsode (Go Go God IIX) it's the second part to the evolution episode explains pretty much that were all believing in the same thing but under a different name (not counting rebirth)

The Black-caped Man · « **Reply #6 on:** 2008-01-02 07:21:30 »

So its ok to believe in South park but not in Final Fantasy!?!?!?!

And yes with 7 I was already thinking about things like that. That always fascinated me since I was thinking. Since my mother died early I never had time for a childhood so I always acted far more experienced than my friends(Thats why some of them admired me, others hated me).

squeeble · « **Reply #7 on:** 2008-01-02 07:38:35 »

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So its ok to believe in South park but not in Final Fantasy!?!?!?!

Dude what makes you think I "believe in it"

And my father died when I was young just FYI

The Black-caped Man · « **Reply #8 on:** 2008-01-02 07:49:34 »

The case with my mother should be no excuse for me, its just that I wanted to make you understand why I thought about believe in my early days.

And you said that southpark explains that we are all believing the same thing. What makes you think that its right? yes dude. The believe in it.

squeeble · « **Reply #9 on:** 2008-01-02 07:53:10 »

No now your putting words in my mouth, belief as your putting it requires faith. I don't have faith.
I said south park explains it I didn't say weather it was right wrong or in between or weather or not I even believe in it.

The Black-caped Man · « **Reply #10 on:** 2008-01-02 07:54:42 »

So if you dont believe in it why should I?^^

obesebear · « **Reply #11 on:** 2008-01-02 08:19:34 »

I've seen the episode so I know what you're talking about squeeble, and I agree to an extent. Though there are differences in all religions, most have a common background and largely believe the same things. And once World War III is over the world will most likely turn all Atheistic and fight each other.
But without the belief in something (flying spaghetti monster?) what's the point to living? If there's no point to life why not just kill yourself or commit whatever crimes as you see fit since there really is no ultimate punishment? The belief in something greather is what drives us to do good.

I don't know if FF7 has influenced my life in any way, except buying that damned crisis core psp.

I do find it strange that The Black Caped Man bases his religion off of a game, but really how much different is it than developing a religion off of a book, or being influenced because you heard an amazing speaker preaching his beliefs?

I'm just a regular ol' Christian btw

The Black-caped Man · « **Reply #12 on:** 2008-01-02 08:27:42 »

Wow....really.....wow....

You know every Chrisitan I talked to about believe thought Im completely stupid although I told him EXACTLY the same thing you just wrote.
Obesebear you are the coolest person Ive met in these forums up to now

And btw I didnt BASE my religion on it I just took over some terms, I wrote it in one of my posts.
But thats exactly what I always said to my friends, why not believe in this or that? Its the same as with the Christians. They base their religion on a man who lived 2000 years ago and whoom they never got to know. I see no point in that.
But dont get me wrong I have nothing against Christians, I just hate those who slag me off because of my belief and think theirs is somehow more right than mine cause thats just not true.

Borde · « **Reply #13 on:** 2008-01-02 10:34:54 »

Jejeje... when WWIII is over... IF there is a WWIII there will be no one to fight. I saw recently a very interesting fact: even after years of nuclear disarming it has been calculated that if you put together EEUU's and Rusia's arsenal, you've got enough destructive power to destroy the world around 200 times.

Beliefs are certainly a complex topic. Even a pure atheist like myself must belive in something without having any rational proofs to back it up (such as the hability of makind to not destroy himself), so I don't feel like bashing others for their beliefs. But there is something that just pisses me off. Why must we have some kind of eternal reward (or punishment) to stop us from comitting crimes? We already have our own laws, so we don't need any divine entity to give us a set of rules.

About your theory The Black-caped Man, I've allways thought that FF7 had a very intersting point of view about the life cycle too. It's well know for everyone that matter cannot be destroyed, just tranformed. And thus when you die the matter of your body it's certainly recycled into something else, very much like the way lifestream recycles energy. I can see that FF7 was just an update for your already existing beliefs, but I also understand why Squeeble thought it was a disturbing idea the way you put it at first.

As for the main topic, there has been one sentence of FF7 that certainly helped me. It's something that Cloud says when Aeris dies. I don't know how it was translated in english, but in Spanish it was "Se acabÃ³ el reir, se acabÃ³ el llorar..." (No more laughs, no more tears...). I used to be very worried about dying, about wasting my life. But after reading that sentence I understood I shouldn't care about that. No matter what I do or don't do. When I die, it will be the end, and I won't feel good or bad any more. I know I could have read this somewhere else, but it had a deep impact for me in that situation.

By the way, my father died when I was young, but I won't say I had no infancy. It just wasn't a very happy infancy...

The Black-caped Man · « **Reply #14 on:** 2008-01-02 11:26:09 »

I know which sentences you mean:

Cloud:"Aerith! This cant be real!"
Sephiroth:"Do not worry. Soon the girl will become part of the planets energy.
All that is left is to go north. The promised land waits for me over the snowy fields.
There I will become a new being by uniting with the planet. As will this girl...."
Cloud:"Shut up. The cycle of nature and your stupid plan dont mean a thing! Aerith is gone...
Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry or get angry....
What about us? What are WE supposed to do? What about my pain?
My fingers are tingling.....my mout is dry.....my eyes are burning!"
Sephiroth:"What are you saying? Are you trying to tell me you have feelings too?"
Cloud:"Of course! Who do think I am!"
Sephiroth:"Ha, ha ha....Stop acting as if you were sad.....
Theres no need to act as though youre angry either.....
Cause Cloud, you are..............................
................................................
.........(Jenova Battle)..................
................................................
Youre just a marionette!"

PS: yeah yeah. Call me freaky but after 100times playing I know every sentence in the game^^

Jari · « **Reply #15 on:** 2008-01-02 11:54:23 »

Quote from: Borde on 2008-01-02 10:34:54

But there is something that just pisses me off. Why must we have some kind of eternal reward (or punishment) to stop us from comitting crimes? We already have our own laws, so we don't need any divine entity to give us a set of rules.

Yeah. For some bizarre reason both of the resident Jesus-freaks proposed the same idea that obesebear posted.

I'll never understand why someone would need the notion of ultimate - or any kind - punishment to be nice. Except of course, if the person is so lacking in morals that he can be only threatened to do the right thing. Then again, based on my experiences with religious people, it all makes sense now...

spyrojyros_Tail · « **Reply #16 on:** 2008-01-02 21:19:33 »

I have recently become more interested in the idea of the lifestream and I have been doing a little bit of work in this area, it nearly drove me to insanity, but ill share my findings. I would recommend you watch "The Secret" and Bill Hicks

Now I believe that the most logical idea of where we came from would be from the meteor that hit the earth and killed the dinosaurs, kinda like the cetra. After the dinosaurs were wiped out we suddenly appeared, so im thinking there was something inside that meteor that created us as we know it now, or influenced earths lifestream if we can call it that (Thats what I think anyway, I could be wrong).

Sp if you watch "The Secret" you will find out that we are living in a world where everything that in the universe is energy. So im going to put a few quotes from the film in here

"So and we can ask the question what creates the world around us he or she will say energy, well describe energy; it can never be created or destroyed, it always was and always has been, it is everything that ever existed it always exists, and its moving into form, through form and out of form.

So you can go to a theologian and say what created the universe and he or she will say god, ok describe god; always was and always has been, never be created or destroyed, it always was and always has been, it is everything that ever existed it always exists, and its moving into form, through form and out of form.

Its the same description just different terminology

So who are we? We are spritual beings, we are an energy field operating in a larger energy field."

So this kinda fits in with bugenhagens version of events. So we are all blessed with this spirit energy when we are brought into the world, an energy that always was and always has been.

Now if you want Bill Hicks version of events: "â€œToday a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."

spyrojyros_Tail · « **Reply #17 on:** 2008-01-02 21:23:59 »

I have recently become more interested in the idea of the lifestream and I have been doing a little bit of work in this area, it nearly drove me to insanity, but ill share my findings. I would recommend you watch "The Secret" and Bill Hicks

Now I believe that the most logical idea of where we came from would be from the meteor that hit the earth and killed the dinosaurs, kinda like the cetra. After the dinosaurs were wiped out we suddenly appeared, so im thinking there was something inside that meteor that created us as we know it now, or influenced earths lifestream if we can call it that (Thats what I think anyway, I could be wrong).

Sp if you watch "The Secret" you will find out that we are living in a world where everything that in the universe is energy. So im going to put a few quotes from the film in here

"So and we can ask the question what creates the world around us he or she will say energy, well describe energy; it can never be created or destroyed, it always was and always has been, it is everything that ever existed it always exists, and its moving into form, through form and out of form.

So you can go to a theologian and say what created the universe and he or she will say god, ok describe god; always was and always has been, never be created or destroyed, it always was and always has been, it is everything that ever existed it always exists, and its moving into form, through form and out of form.

Its the same description just different terminology

So who are we? We are spritual beings, we are an energy field operating in a larger energy field."

So this kinda fits in with bugenhagens version of events. So we are all blessed with this spirit energy when we are brought into the world, an energy that always was and always has been.

Now if you want Bill Hicks version of events: "â€œToday a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves."

So the lifestream to me seems as logical as you can put it.

Borde · « **Reply #18 on:** 2008-01-02 22:25:00 »

Wooo... man, sure you must have played a lot of times in order to remeber the script so accurately The Black-caped Man. Yes, that's the dialog I was refering to.

Exactly El Ammo Bandito! But even for those who resist to follow the basic implicit rules that keep our society working, we've got the law and the police to punish them without the need of a god.

Just to clarify something spyrojyros_Tail, hominids (not to talk about homo sapiens) didn't appeared exactly when the dinosaurs disappeared. There was a HUGE lapse of time between their death and the birth of our race.

squeeble · « **Reply #19 on:** 2008-01-02 23:34:28 »

Quote from: obesebear on 2008-01-02 08:19:34

If there's no point to life why not just kill yourself or commit whatever crimes as you see fit since there really is no ultimate punishment? The belief in something greather is what drives us to do good.

My life driving force is love, love of my friends family, the girl I'm painfully in love with, and I don't need any god or something telling me if I don't do right I'll burn because I do whats right out of the kindness of my heart not a book or a higher being telling me how to do it.
But it seems common sense isn't so common anymore these days with groups of youths...

obesebear · « **Reply #20 on:** 2008-01-03 00:58:16 »

@ Borde

Are you sure dinosaurs and humans didn't coexist? In one of my religion classes I remember hearing about some type of proof that they did live together. The reasons Dinosaurs grew so large was because of a layer of ice covering the Earth's atmospere creating a sort of greenhouse effect that allowed all life to live much longer than we consider normal these days. Which would explain the different ancient texts with accounts of humans living hundreds of years. This layer of ice was obviously destroyed by a meteor(s) and caused a massive flood... anyways, I'm interested if anyone else has learned or at least heard of this before.

@ Squeeble

I'm glad you don't need a higher force dictating the way you act because of the threat of extreme punishment. That's great. I grew up in middle class America and was force fed religion until I was 18, so I had very little interaction with Atheists. While I consider myself open minded in all things, it doesn't mean I completely understand other religions (or lack thereof). But I do have trouble comprehending how Atheists don't believe in a higher power/being, though being Agnostic does make a lot of sense...

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #21 on:** 2008-01-03 01:24:04 »

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In one of my religion classes I remember hearing about some type of proof that they did live together.

Maybe this would be right up your religion class teacher's alley. The best way to describe this sort of thing is that attempting to twist science to prove an outcome you've already decided upon (based on a religious book, or whatever), is a bit dangerous, and surely the antithesis of the scientific method.

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But I do have trouble comprehending how Atheists don't believe in a higher power/being

I suppose atheists think the same of religious believers. Personally, my train of thought runs parallel to that of logic; ideas that you can come up with that contain religion, I apply logic and reason to. For instance: there is a Heaven. Where? What proof is there of this? Is there any science/hard fact that can back up such an assertion? Ultimately, what most (if not all) of this logical questioning comes back to is something like the following: "because Jesus/God/... said", or "because it says in the Bible" - or rather, "because it just is, and my religion/I choose to believe it that way" - with no actual logic, reasoning or proof behind it (the discussion of the motives behind the writers of religious texts is another post altogether).

To point to the mysterious, the unknown (and moreover, the never-knowable... "how can you prove god doesn't exist?") just because there are gaps in our understanding - such as you find with Creationists against evolution - is really the fall of the provable and the rise of the fanciful; this sort of thing could often be found in centuries past where concepts such as the stars in the sky being "heavenly bodies" or twinkling gods watching over us were common - because we simply lacked the understanding, and filled in the gaps with whatever mysterious ideas our heads could collectively come up with. As we enter recent centuries, "the unknown" gives way; our scientific and mathematical understanding grows, and so the need for religion seems to be slipping with regards to the immediate world around us, and long-established religious bodies become afraid of change. Not so with science. Take again the theory of evolution - you know what, it isn't perfect, it has holes, but it's the best working explanation we've got, with provable, tangible evidence and postulates. It may morph into something entirely different as we continue to push and poke at it, but that's the beauty of science - it moves forward, it accepts critique, it can even do a complete U-turn, but there's always the scientific method/logic/proof used to get it there.

Alas, as much as our understanding moves forward in leaps and bounds, human suffering lingers on, and many people's lives can be stricken with difficulties, and so the need for people to reach out for an otherworldly presence watching over them - comforting, reassuring - when bad things happen, or to get them through life on a daily basis, remains, and probably will for centuries to come.

Pardon me for the monologue.

Jari · « **Reply #22 on:** 2008-01-03 01:39:26 »

Quote from: obesebear on 2008-01-03 00:58:16

@ Borde

Are you sure dinosaurs and humans didn't coexist? In one of my religion classes I remember hearing about some type of proof that they did live together. The reasons Dinosaurs grew so large was because of a layer of ice covering the Earth's atmospere creating a sort of greenhouse effect that allowed all life to live much longer than we consider normal these days. Which would explain the different ancient texts with accounts of humans living hundreds of years. This layer of ice was obviously destroyed by a meteor(s) and caused a massive flood... anyways, I'm interested if anyone else has learned or at least heard of this before.

Religion. Educating people about biology since 0 AD.

I do not even dare to ask why religion class is doing Creationism / Young Earth brainwashing instead of... you know, teaching things about religions in general.

I think that I can answer for Borde, though: scientific proof. All the reliable sources suggest that dinosaurs - save for their avian offspring; birds - perished about 65 million years ago. First humans - and these are not even Homo Sapiens - appeared about 200 000 years ago. There's a 64 800 000 year gap between them. Which is 324 times longer period of time than the 200 000 years during which humans have existed in some shape or form.

EDIT: Damn you Synergy Blades! Damn you and your fast fingers!

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #23 on:** 2008-01-03 01:47:51 »

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EDIT: Damn you Synergy Blades! Damn you and your fast fingers!

Ah, but Jari, would you rather have my fast fingers, or your ability to condense my argument down to three lines?

Tsetra · « **Reply #24 on:** 2008-01-03 02:24:48 »

Theories based on theories...

I think everything in this topic points towards one thing. We don't know jack.