[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994)

[Sega Chief]

Hmm, maybe petrification wasn't such a hot idea, assuming that's what caused that to happen. I'll test that again.

[FrozenExcalibur]

i'm pretty sure the one that i petrify him and the one that got soft-locked is different try

[Murasame]

I'm trying to open the item database but for some reason it's just a bunch of gibberish symbols. I'm trying to open in excel. Is there another program I should be using?

[Sega Chief]

i'm pretty sure the one that i petrify him and the one that got soft-locked is different try

I'll root around and see if I can pinpoint the cause.

I'm trying to open the item database but for some reason it's just a bunch of gibberish symbols. I'm trying to open in excel. Is there another program I should be using?

It was made using Apache's Open Office; I would have thought they'd be compatible, but I guess not.

[FrozenExcalibur]

not sure if this would help but , tifa is using limit break that time and it soft-lock

[Sega Chief]

not sure if this would help but , tifa is using limit break that time and it soft-lock

Thanks for that info; try using a different character in the meantime and I'll test this with Tifa's Limits once I get back from work tonight.

[HeaN]

looks like the .iro files are outdated in the 7th heaven mod. Any updates?!

[Sega Chief]

I think 7H is a version behind (1.2); Alyza is getting some time off soon for the summer so hopefully something'll happen at that time. I could try making an .IRO in the meantime, but it might be best to work on getting NT as close to 1.4 as I can. There's still quite a lot to do.

[Rufus]

I think it would be best if you made that more clear on the main page of this thread, when i enabled new threat mod in 7th heaven i assumed it was the latest, most would, unless said otherwise on the main page at least.

and yeah really looking forward to the boss rush/survival mode when it comes out.

[Sega Chief]

Good idea, I updated the main page with that info.

[Murasame]

For the rank up system, does it not mean that bosses could potentially be beaten with a little too much ease? In the Youtube video you posted it had Aerith gaining 20 magic sources as early as Wall Market; would that not render the next few hours of the game way too easy? I get that it's optional but I do like the idea of building characters a certain way. I just don't know if Mr. Smile forcing 20 magic sources down Aerith's throat is excessive? I know you said the source points are gained from bosses and story events so it's true I don't know how often a rank up would be available. Just thought I'd mention it.

[Sega Chief]

That video was just a demonstration of what the system was; if you look at it again, the source pack I picked didn't match up with what sources I actually got (20 Magic was what the old source pack gave, from the Arrange Beta). That's because I'm still fine-tuning what sources should be given per rank and how many ranks there should be. For what I'm setting up, 20 Magic per rank would be far too high so you won't be seeing that in the finished version; 5-10 is around the range I'm going for, there's an upper limit on each stat I'm trying to work within and I need to take boosts from equipment and Materia into consideration as well.

[Gatchaman]

Sounds like an awful lot of balancing! I don't envy you, Chief!

[atro city]

Does the rank up happen for every character or just the ones you use?

[Sega Chief]

Every character will gain SP throughout the game, regardless of how often they're used, but characters in the party will nab a small bonus so they develop slightly faster.

Here's an example (these aren't the actual numbers, mind):

Let's say you defeat Materia Keeper. All 9 characters get +10SP, even if they've not joined the party yet (so Vincent and Cid will get this SP too). The party you used to defeat Keeper was Cloud, Barret, and Tifa. These three will get an extra, say, +5 on top of the +10 everyone else got. We can add other modifiers too; Keeper is an optional boss in NT, so we could add checks to see when you beat him; if you beat him early then you'd get more SP compared to coming back on Disc 3 when you'd be overpowered for the fight.

SP can rise in story scenes as well, or by talking to party members and listening to one-off dialogue (I need to be careful to avoid repeatable SP though). Completing a character's LV.4 Limit sidequest or building their Ultimate Weapon will also have an SP boost associated with it. It's going to be very much a 'background mechanic' though; I'm not planning on having 'SP gained' messages or anything like that, or players feeling that they've got to juggle which party members to take along to maximise SP.

[Rufus]

sounds amazing, but I don't see why the active party members should get more SP, that will just make things worse when your forced to have a certain party member you don't usually have, i think they should all get equally the same SP, as essentially SP points is like a custom leveling up where you choose what stats get stronger, in the original game all party members end up the same level when they join the party etc.

but can i check that you still get levels and levels affect only HP amount or something? or do you use SP to give you HP as well?

I hope this will be included in survival mode as well.

[atro city]

sounds amazing, but I don't see why the active party members should get more SP, that will just make things worse when your forced to have a certain party member you don't usually have, i think they should all get equally the same SP, as essentially SP points is like a custom leveling up where you choose what stats get stronger, in the original game all party members end up the same level when they join the party etc.

I agree, plus having active party members get more SP and EXP would be a double whammy. It would also discourage switching your party around even more than it already is.

[Sega Chief]

Yeah, you're right. Passive EXP's 50% loss is a pain in the ass for keeping a team up to date...hmm.

Alright, what I'll do is scrap that plan and make SP gains flat for all mandatory fights, etc and only have bonus SP for when characters complete their Lv.4/Ult weapon stuff, or when you talk to them during the story. How's that sound?

[racompave]

Hi Sega Chief, I just obtained Omnislash and there's some ideas I want to share:

###########################SPOILERS AHEAD#####################################################


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First thing I want to say is that the battle against Zack was just magical, and it was the most epic combat I had in any RPG game.

I also loved the fact that if you are equipped with the Buster Sword, the pre-battle dialogue changes. However, I won the battle with the cheapest possible method, I just casted Bio3 on him and he died in 4 or 5 turns. This guy should be inmune to Poison, in fact I didn't cast Bio3 until my fifth try or so, cause I assumed he was indeed inmune to Poison.

About his attack repertory, I think he should be capable of using your own limits against you ( like Omnislash), but I loved the rest of them ( Consecutive Cuts, Grand Braver, Meteorain, Apocalypse, the one with the anime girl appearing... LOL  ).

And finally, I have to say that It would be interesting to boost the strength of the Buster Sword after the fight in order to make it usable again, at least to equal the strength of Ultima Weapon but with different characteristics.

#######################################################################################################

By the way, where the heck is Heaven's Cloud? 

Is the last item I need to fabricate Ultima Weapon.

[Sega Chief]

Glad you liked it. Yeah, there was something I didn't know about Poison at the time when I made a lot of these fights; the ticks of damage it causes are also Poison element, so they're dealing double damage too. It means the fight is over in as few as 16 ticks instead of 32 + the damage the player is laying down. In the revision I'm working on, I'll likely make these guys take half damage from Poison instead (so it'd be 64 ticks instead of 16) and combine it with anti-Poison measures. Should make it a little better + keep the elemental consistency enforced.

He originally did use Omnislash if you took too long to kill him during the final phase. Also happy someone found that hidden Buster Sword dialogue, I just figured it'd be a wee easter egg. As for a Buster buff, I was wanting to do something like that but it would need either 7H or one of the pre-existing weapons to be 'sacrificed' for it. Gjoerulv had a good idea for it, I think he gave it Death Penalty's formula but set up Cloud's kills in such a way that very few people noticed the difference when using it. That way it got progressively stronger over the game as Cloud racked up more kills, could do something like that?

Heaven's Cloud is Morphed from a tricky Extra Battle boss called Variablis. The reason this one is tricky is because I made the boss mechanics without really thinking about how well suited it would be for this game. It mimics Number024 and Magimaster from FF6 in changing it's elemental defences, but the two glaring flaws with that is Sense doesn't work on bosses with more than 30,000HP and I don't think elemental weaknesses are tracked when they change through AI.

The present strategy for him is to use a Vaccine on him, then hit him with a super-charged Ultima (either through MP Turbo and/or a high Magic stat) four times and to then use two 'Cactuar Guns' to inflict close to 2000 damage. This leaves him with very little HP and perfect for a Morph using either a Conformer or one of the 'Ancient' weapons (Nail Bat, etc.) which I was told ignore the Morph damage penalty to some extent. Variablis himself is going to be completely overhauled for the update.

[Rufus]

well its your mod, you can choose what you please with the SP thing, just think how bad FF8's draw system is for stat building hehe.

but overall I think it would be best if everyone got equal SP, i don't see how it could work any other way as how would you scale things back for certain playthroughs with different party members.

not sure at what points you mean when talking to them in the story, i guess your basically asking the player which one to increase its stats, sortof like a choice, im not sure if that's such a good idea either as then the player would feel forced to keep whichever one he chose in that situation, and for the choices where the player can't choose to talk to a certain party member , he wont get to use them, but its your choice at the end.

its most likely the player will be doing everyones new threat boss anyway to get the party read to take on the final story bosses, you can give SP points for that particular character for each of the boss fights, but its most likely you will expect the player to do all of them anyway, so it wouldn't much either way.

yeah half the new threats bosses are really cool, but i hope barrets and cids get replaced with something better, i never got to see tifas.


what is with this new boss towards the end of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjA1Zu0VZA

I don't remember encountering it in 1.2.



Also I would suggest blocking off the final story bosses until the new threats are taken care of, including the weapons, and then you will be strong enough to do the final story bosses.

[Aquarii]

Hi me again,

After i defeated Safer Sephiroth, the Game freezed/stopped working in the Moment when Sephiroth called Cloud. Background-video(rain)+Audio was still working.
No Error message.

Greetz Aquarii

[Gatchaman]

Yup, I liked that dialogue too! As soon as I saw him comment on my choice of sword I knew I had to check it with the Buster, and was disappointed I couldn't beat him with it (mostly because it took too long and I got stuck in the mog power soft lock), but I'm sure it's possible if the bug is fixed (if slow).
I enjoyed the battle so much that I've actually gone back to play Crisis Core again, I hope you're pleased!
Adding a slow growth to the Buster Sword would be very cool for keeping it relevant - more weapon options is more fun, right? And it's so iconic, I'm sure at least a few people would like to use it.

I kind of agree that all the boss battle SP should be given to all the characters equally, but I like the idea of giving the characters some individual SP for giving them attention in story sequences, or for their sidequests. So maybe you could award individual bonus SP for completing the battle square and the Junon leagues with a character too, if someone feels their character is underdeveloped. Makes up for neglecting them!

[Sega Chief]

well its your mod, you can choose what you please with the SP thing, just think how bad FF8's draw system is for stat building hehe.

but overall I think it would be best if everyone got equal SP, i don't see how it could work any other way as how would you scale things back for certain playthroughs with different party members.

not sure at what points you mean when talking to them in the story, i guess your basically asking the player which one to increase its stats, sortof like a choice, im not sure if that's such a good idea either as then the player would feel forced to keep whichever one he chose in that situation, and for the choices where the player can't choose to talk to a certain party member , he wont get to use them, but its your choice at the end.

its most likely the player will be doing everyones new threat boss anyway to get the party read to take on the final story bosses, you can give SP points for that particular character for each of the boss fights, but its most likely you will expect the player to do all of them anyway, so it wouldn't much either way.

yeah half the new threats bosses are really cool, but i hope barrets and cids get replaced with something better, i never got to see tifas.


what is with this new boss towards the end of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjA1Zu0VZA

I don't remember encountering it in 1.2.

Also I would suggest blocking off the final story bosses until the new threats are taken care of, including the weapons, and then you will be strong enough to do the final story bosses.

That video was from v1.1 of the mod; Bio-Troopers replaced Thunder Gunner there and TG was moved to the Elevator battle.

Hi me again,

After i defeated Safer Sephiroth, the Game freezed/stopped working in the Moment when Sephiroth called Cloud. Background-video(rain)+Audio was still working.
No Error message.

Greetz Aquarii

I can hazard a guess at what caused that, probably someone got stuck when they walked off-screen (maybe). But it was raining in the crater? Maybe I forgot to add the variable switch to the entrance, but I thought I had. Sorry for the soft-lock, that's probably the worst place to get one.

Yup, I liked that dialogue too! As soon as I saw him comment on my choice of sword I knew I had to check it with the Buster, and was disappointed I couldn't beat him with it (mostly because it took too long and I got stuck in the mog power soft lock), but I'm sure it's possible if the bug is fixed (if slow).
I enjoyed the battle so much that I've actually gone back to play Crisis Core again, I hope you're pleased!
Adding a slow growth to the Buster Sword would be very cool for keeping it relevant - more weapon options is more fun, right? And it's so iconic, I'm sure at least a few people would like to use it.

I kind of agree that all the boss battle SP should be given to all the characters equally, but I like the idea of giving the characters some individual SP for giving them attention in story sequences, or for their sidequests. So maybe you could award individual bonus SP for completing the battle square and the Junon leagues with a character too, if someone feels their character is underdeveloped. Makes up for neglecting them!

The Soldier 1st hype is real :p.

Oh yeah, the Junon Leagues could be good for SP. I need to overhaul that place slightly though, it takes a little too long to get through it all. I could try a test or three with the Buster Sword then, see if I can make it scale or not.

[Rufus]

oh right i never took the elevator, i guess this means i missed a boss fight?

maybe you can make it that the game doens't let you use the stairs so no one can miss the boss fight.